Speaker 1: 0:00

I want to land on this here, because people need to stop going. I'm looking for a conscious man, and then they have to start going. What is a real man, a good man, feel like. What is a real man of integrity, vitality and determination feel like? And why, why, why, why are we not aware of that? Why is it this other thing?

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome to the whole shebang.

Speaker 1: 0:23

I'm Jen Briggs, your host.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Let me tell you what you're in for here. Many of us have been running at breakneck speed, functioning mostly in our heads, and we've suffered from disconnection, burnout and lost passions. I believe it's because we functioned in part and not in whole. So we're exploring a new path, embracing intuition, creativity, playfulness and connection in all of life. It's vibrant, powerful and magnetic. So come on with me and buckle up buttercups. We're diving in All right.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Before we jump into today's episode, I want to lay the quick framework for you. If you haven't already, I would strongly encourage you to go back and listen to episode number 22. It is the first and clearly not the last episode that Max and I recorded together and it lays a really solid foundation for the conversation that we have today and delve further into. In that episode we talk about conscious relating, epic sex, some dating things, and we dive even deeper into all of that today. So in this episode today, we talk about all kinds of goodies. Let me just say this Max brings the heat. He was feeling spicy and in a good way.

Speaker 2: 1:35

There are lots of things that has been at the forefront of his work, right now that he shows up today with some really pointed opinions on what a conscious man is and isn't good men, what good men want in women, the need for men to step up in leadership and owning a clear vision and purpose for their lives, what women can do to prepare for men in their future or how they can relate in the most healthy way in relationship. We talk about communities, eldership, toxic masculinity and toxic femininity. It's so much, it's so good. You're going to love it. How can I not say it? Buckle up, we're diving in, max. Welcome back to the whole shebang.

Speaker 1: 2:17

Thanks for having me back and congrats, is this your 50th episode?

Speaker 2: 2:21

This is my 50th. I have to say like when I started this I was like if I get to 50 and I still want to do this, then I'll keep going. But 50 was kind of my, my mile marker and I'm like, oh, she's just getting started, yeah. Yeah, good, good I'm glad you feel that way and I am so honored to be your 50th.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Here we are.

Speaker 2: 2:40

Yeah, right on. Okay, I'm going to start with a question that I didn't send you in advance. Are you ready for it?

Speaker 1: 2:47

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 2:48

So let's talk about toxic masculinity.

Speaker 1: 2:52

All right, let's get into it.

Speaker 2: 2:55

What is it? This is a topic, this is a buzzword right Toxic, and I think what we don't hear a lot of is also toxic femininity.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Yep, yeah, we don't. Yeah, somehow the like, the feminine side is absolved of all toxicity, apparently, according to the common narrative.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Yeah, all right, this is actually really easy to understand.

Speaker 1: 3:14

So healthy, healthy masculinity would be leadership Like here's what we're doing, here's where we're going. Where it turns toxic is when things aren't working and the masculine whoever that is in leadership positions gets controlling, tyrannical, emotionally unstable and like trying to maintain control for the sake of leadership. That's where the toxic element comes. And so you know, like if things aren't working in my life and I'm just like demanding that she change, demanding that we do different things, like and like, or even just my emotional expression from a place of trying to control, that's toxic masculinity. And so it's a power dynamic from the top down because it's controlled, it's tyrannical, it's just like that's what it is now the experience of toxic masculinity. You know things like. You know the me too movement was. It was a big response to sort of toxic masculinity within the sexual intimacy space, right, and so there's like toxic sexual behaviors, predatory behaviors, and again it's sort of like men trying to control their field or get what they want through methods that are not holistic, healthy or consensual.

Speaker 1: 4:20

Does that make sense.

Speaker 2: 4:22

It does. And I'm wondering. I feel like maybe there's this spectrum, right, like everything is in black and white, we've got 50 shades of gray within toxic masculinity, and yeah, I don't know. I think this this brings me back to one of the questions that, uh, let me see if I can find it here um, this experience of and I've experienced this too if you're coming from a relationship where the other partner is maybe more in their feminine or more soft I don't know what the right words are and then you experience what feels like masculinity, right, and maybe it's toxic, maybe it's arrogant, maybe it's not, but it feels so different from what's the word I'm looking for, like the other side of the spectrum. Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 5:08

If.

Speaker 2: 5:09

I'm with a partner that is more in his feminine I'll just use me as an example or if I've been in that in the past and then I go out dating and I'm like, oh, here's a guy that's like, feels like he's got it under control, and even to your word about toxic, toxic masculinity, that it's like controlling, how can I discern?

Speaker 1: 5:35

the difference between the masculine that is healthy and the masculine that is toxic. Yeah, this is actually a really the only way I can explain this is really through this lens of co-creating, co-creating. And so, for example, if things aren't working well in my relationship, if I just go like F this, like you've got to change, like this is terrible, or like this is what we're doing, like that's not co-created leadership, that's me contracting around, my lack of leadership or my lack of outcome that I desire. So a healthy version would be like hey, this is what's up. Like we are off, I want to get back in the right place. Like how do I onboard her in the leadership, in not calling her to lead, but like let's both take self-responsibility and move toward the thing we're trying to create here. So like that's a co-created version.

Speaker 1: 6:17

And you know, I mean I think it's really about self versus us. Like what are we working from? As a man, I'm never working just on behalf of myself. Everything I do in life is on behalf of me, my wife, my kids, the people I serve. Like that's how I feel my life. And so I think the toxic masculine would have less awareness and less of an idea that they're holding all that and they're just like me, me, me, you know, inherit like narcissism, right, even though it's a pop culture term like that's like toxic expression, because it's just me expressed, not us, we together. Like here's like does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 6:52

Yeah, it does. Yeah, and I feel like I've sensed that, I've seen that, that there's this, this like I've experienced it as almost like a hurried energy, because it's me focused. It's like let's move, let's control this, let's move this on, let's. And on the front end, as a woman, it can feel like, oh, he's leading, he's leading the way, but it's, it's a subtle nuance that turns into like not so subtle behavior eventually that you're like, ooh, this is, this is controlling.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Yeah, yeah, I mean, there is there. There is, like you said, there's a spectrum and sometimes you know, as a man, sometimes I have to take charge and I just have to go. This is what we're doing. And it's not just in my life or wife or you know, uh, family life, but even in my, like, business life, like sometimes all leadership seems to drop and there's no one leading and it's like okay, here's what we're going to do. And but you know it's on behalf of, not for me, it's not here's what I'm going to do for me to be safe.

Speaker 1: 7:46

Here's what I'm going to do. So we're all good. You know, there was an event. There was a really good example of this. A couple of years ago I was at an event and there was a forest fire that started nearby, and it was. We were unsure which direction it was going to go. Wind direction was sort of shifty and it created a lot of fear in the space and, all of a sudden, like there was kind of a vacuum of leadership, because it was like no one really knew what to do. And and I looked at the field of it, I just went OK, what's true? What's the wind direction? What's the? You know, I looked at the weather app and the windy app for, like sailors and like wind people, Do you have a sailor wind app on your phone?

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's how? Yes, I do, and I'm not a sailor, but I use wind direction to actually understand what weather is actually doing.

Speaker 1: 8:31

And so instead of these like blobs of color that you get from, like weather radars, which are useful wind directions on a global scale. This is a weird side thing that we're going into, but anyway, yeah, the wind directions on a global scale can tell you more about how to predict what's happening, because you can look across the oceans and go like, oh, there's something over there that's actually pushing wind this way. So, anyway, when it comes to fire, if there's a fire nearby, the first thing I'm going to do is what's wind direction look like, because obviously that's the thing that dictates, anyway. So this thing popped off.

Speaker 1: 8:58

I was not in the leadership role of this container, this space, but there was a vacuum of leadership because everyone got kind of confused and I just went all right, here's what's up in this room of people how many of you feel incredibly unsafe and need to leave today, and then, for the rest of you that are willing to stay a couple hours, here's what we're going to do to close this thing down, clean it up and get out of here within 12 hours. And basically I just split the group between two, based on nervous system capacity in the moment, and I let everyone that was scared just go okay. And then the people that were willing to stick around, which is a safer group to work with in that circumstance, just because they're not fritzed in their nervous system. We finished cleanly and then we moved forward. And so you know I I created a space on behalf of us.

Speaker 2: 9:39

It wasn't just like everybody all hands on deck, no matter what, no matter where you're at, like everyone's going to help, which would have ignored the fact that people are some people are probably really scared and not sure what to do, and yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Well, what I was going to say is yeah go, yeah, here we go, here we go.

Speaker 1: 9:54

You can go ahead, I'll let you.

Speaker 2: 9:56

This is what we do in Minnesota. No, you go, no you go, no you go. Have you read the book, uh, masculine by young blood.

Speaker 1: 10:09

What's it? Called the masculine in relationship yeah, he talks about those two yeah yeah, he's just like one.

Speaker 2: 10:13

Oh, do you know him? I do yes have you like bunked with him at camp?

Speaker 1: 10:19

yeah, yeah all the photos that he uses on his website or I took. I took those photos. That was a photographer years ago, so anyway, what? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:25

Okay, well, I don't, he's a great man.

Speaker 2: 10:27

Cool. Okay, I've just read his one book. This is all I know, but he talks about that providing structure and creating safety. Yeah, and as two of the three kind of ways I first create safety and understand what's going on, and then how do I provide structure? Can you flesh that out a little bit more, like in relationship or, let's say, on a normal date or some situation that's just kind of like an everyday situation? How does a man bring leadership on a practical level to like provide structure and create safety?

Speaker 1: 11:11

So, to create safety.

Speaker 1: 11:12

She has space to voice her needs, wants and desires. That's it. So, basically, if I was on a date with somebody and I started with, like how are you feeling? Like what are you open to tonight? Like how much time do you have available? Like, if I just sort of get curious around what she's a yes to, she's going to be able to voice her truth, including her boundaries she might say, like well, I'm available for like two hours and I'm down to stay around this area. I don't really want to go anywhere else. Like, so, giving her the ability to voice her truth, that's how you establish safety. She's now voiced her truth and I go okay, great, that sounds great. So here's what I'm thinking from a place of awareness of her nervous system, awareness of her safety. And yet let's go, let's do this. Like you want to do that, you want to do this. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1: 11:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:55

I feel like there's a conversation. There's a bigger conversation happening. Obviously, there always is around this kind of like men providing direction and clarity and leadership, and I saw you recently post about that co-creation.

Speaker 2: 12:11

I'm going to ask you to speak on behalf of like men, yeah sure I mean, that's what we're, that's what we're here doing, right, okay, do you think most men want to do that? Like, deep down, do they have a desire where they want to lead, or are they like also tired of being in their masculine all day and tired of leading and they want a co-creator? Like, do men want to do that?

Speaker 1: 12:37

I think so.

Speaker 1: 12:37

I think you know, let's just talk about this. When you talk about a field of people, there's definitely percentages, right, and there's quite, there's quite a few men that don't want to lead, and let's just say, like 50 to 60% of men probably don't want to lead 50%, you know. It's just inherent in humanity. A lot of people don't want to lead. And so when I'm talking about the men that are in my field, the men that are coming to my events or that I coach or that I work with, these are men that want to lead and they want to learn how to lead.

Speaker 1: 13:04

And one of the reasons men don't want to lead and why we have so many more men that feel disempowered in leadership is because anyone that's 40 or younger really 50 or younger has kind of grown up with this like this big, like, like it's not at the fault of feminism, but like this language around. Men are terrible, men are toxic, and then me too, and then all this stuff, and you know so men are kind of like I don't even know what I'm capable of doing here, Like what am I allowed to do? Can?

Speaker 1: 13:30

I claim leadership and is that toxic, like a lot of confusion around, is what's inherently true in my beingness going to be castrated by other people, including our mothers, right? So a lot of people that turn into nice guys like their, their whole deal is like their mothers castrated them. So now you have nice guys who can't lead because they're leading not from truth of heart, they're leading from is it safe if I do this? Is she safe if I do this? So it's always like reactive leadership. So anyway, here's the thing you said do men want to lead? I think so.

Speaker 1: 13:54

I think a lot of men do, and I find that the men that choose leadership and choose to say like, here's what I want from my life, here's what I want to create and here's how I'm going to do it with my wife, my kids or my people in mind, those are the men that I'm just like boom, that is a trustable man, that is a capable man, you know. And inherently, when you get into the South, the American South, where I live, there's a lot of Christian men, men that are in the you know, the church, and they sort of have this foundational way of living kind of built in because it's a church-oriented thing. Now I'm in charge of my flock. I'm here to create from that place, you know, in relationship to God, like that's actually pretty solid. And so what I find in my realm is, you know, like how do we get back to men that are just like I'm here to take care of my people? You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 14:41

That's been so on the forefront of my mind lately and I just posted something about this Like I'm just feeling I don't know if convicted is the right word but this conversation around the patriarchy and around, like, my role as a woman and the women in my world, and this idea kind of popped into my head or my being the other day as I was considering, like how do we evolve in forgiveness and how do we release karma, and this, this kind of question is sitting with me of like, have we forgiven the patriarchy?

Speaker 2: 15:09

I mean, there is a reality, historically speaking, that that there was a group of men that came in and they created a structure and it gave them power, money, stripped the sacred, the actual like sacred feminine, like the love, it like, stripped that. And then I'm like, okay, unforgiveness in any relationship, in any capacity. So let's say one-to-one, societally, we just pick that lack forgiveness up and carry it into the present and, just like, breathe it out, just like, fuck the patriarchy, fuck men, and like and what is that doing? So? So now, like as a, I'm like we don't, we don't want to care, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:49

And I think there's that place really, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Right, right. But I think these, these same women, are also simultaneously so hungry for real masculine leadership. And so there's this, I think. I think maybe I'm in like an echo chamber, but I think we're entering a new time when things are stripping bare a little bit more and people are right. Are you seeing that?

Speaker 1: 16:14

Yeah, I am, you know. I mean just all right, there's a couple layers to this.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:36

When I think about school, my relationship to going through school, like elementary school, middle school, high school, that is a system. Yeah, an artist, I was more of a person that thought in colors and shapes and sounds rather than like linear. You know like and you know concepts. I'm a concept guy. So, like, I loved history, I liked science, I liked certain things, but then we got into math I was like I hate this, I don't like memorization, I don't like you know whatever. And so, anyway, why I'm bringing this up is because I had a huge reaction to school. That was so much that my constitution was like F, this F, all of it. I don't want it, I don't need it, I don't want any part to do with it, I don't like the way it feels. So that's sort of like me reacting to the structure or the patriarchal. But here's the thing School is really important. School is really important and school as a system, even though it doesn't get it all right and even though it doesn't address all the different learning styles and blah, blah, blah it's really important and it's the thing that actually has created an incredible class of people in every country where schools exist that are capable to do big things beyond just chop wood and make food, like people that can do, like science and like you know all the different stuff like that's from education. So here's the thing, right.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Why I'm bringing this up is because it's incredibly naive to just go. The patriarchy is terrible and everything about it's terrible, like really Really, because we have roads, we have electricity, we have homes, we have cars, we have all sorts of stuff. And you know who made it? Men, men made it all. I have a construction site in front of my house. There's about 50 men working out there. That's part of the patriarchy Men who are creating structure. That structure I drive on every day to get my kids to school, to go to the grocery store, and this is really simple. And it's also really like ignorant if we don't actually admit the truth, which is that men built an incredible system that we are in luxurious benefit of and some parts of it don't feel good. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 18:23

Max, you're bringing the heat today. I like it. Yeah, I mean, it's true.

Speaker 1: 18:26

It's true, it's true.

Speaker 2: 18:28

This is the tricky part of it, right, like it's anything where I'm like okay, you can be in a relationship and go. This was really shitty and this is really hard to forgive and still sift through like this, this part of the relationship brought healing.

Speaker 2: 18:45

this part of the relationship brought structure, this part of so, like anything in life, there are pieces to it and I think we, because of, maybe, social media and our society we've gotten so polarized on so many topics that we, I think, have a hard time accepting the paradox in so many situations which is like, oh my gosh, can, can we admit that there is positive that came out of the patriarchy? Just, I feel like people are just going to like choke on those words.

Speaker 1: 19:12

Yeah, yeah, well, they. Just it's ignorance, it's straight ignorance, like I there's. There's nothing more entitled and ridiculous than a woman who has the right to vote, who has a high powered like wealthy job and has a good situation for her house, her family, her like her safety Right, nice house worth five hundred thousand or more, you've got kids. You've got nice cars, you've got a husband like you've got a career. Like someone like that, being like the patriarchy is like OK, ok, like I can't take it seriously?

Speaker 1: 19:41

I can't take it seriously. You are living at the benefit of structures that were built by men. They're incredible. These structures, and some of the things about them are terrible, and we have to sort those out, and so that's really what we're doing right now. But to throw the whole thing out. Good luck. Good luck Like move to a third world country that's currently in chaos and that you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 20:06

This is gonna sit with me, yeah. No, this is real like, and I'm, I'm like, I'm doing my best to just like fully, because, because I have grown up in an environment where the message that I've received around the patriarchy has been loud, it's been subtle, and I have had experiences that have been really fucking tough, and so like to sift through that is not easy, but like I think I think it's imperative right now. I think if we do want to move forward and help evolve how we're doing things and raise the vibration and awaken and all of the yummy things.

Speaker 1: 20:41

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: 20:42

We have to look at that, we have to look at that, we have to look at it.

Speaker 1: 20:44

The holistic truth is necessary, it's necessary.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:47

Here's a good example of what I had to do. I'm going to flip this really quickly because it's really important For me to heal all of the hardship and difficulty I had in my heart around my ex-wife and my last relationship, even though she had a mental illness and she caused insufferable pain in that relationship, even though I can say she is responsible for what happened in that relationship. For me to actually heal it I had to go. No, what's really true? What's my responsibility in that? I had to look holistically at how did I also cultivate and create emotional distress in her system? And so we want to blame the world. We want to, we want to make it easy, we want to absolve ourselves of the responsibility so that we don't have to take responsibility. That's really what it comes down to. And so if we get to go oh, the patriarchy is terrible what we're doing is we're excusing our lack of empowerment in our own lives, even though it is on us to do. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 21:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:35

It's been really interesting, and this is in all the different big conversations, like all the polarizing conversations. It's either I'm disempowered because I'm not taking responsibility or I'm empowered because I've taken responsibility. And when you look at who's actually empowered in the world, there's the people that are like the world's not working for me, and then there's the people that are like I'm creating with the power I have. That's the two types of people you have in the world. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Okay, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Okay. So let's talk about how we create and be empowered, moving forward. What do you? This is like a big question. So take this where you want to, take this, or maybe don't take it anywhere, but like you're working with a lot of great people on a high level, yeah, that I perceive to be, I'm going to say, on the front edge, like I don't know, of, spiritually speaking, even just on, like the pulse of what's happening. What do you, what do you perceive or what are you intuiting, or what do you see as as you're looking forward in what's happening and how things are evolving?

Speaker 1: 22:40

Yeah, what I'm? Well, what I'll say? I know a lot of people that are in the kind of self-growth community and they are like the top leaders of it. Right and um, you know, gs you mentioned, for example, and, uh, robert Glover, john Wineland, david data these are people that I'm aware of or have contacted or been worked, you know. Whatever they're, they're in a close circle, so, anyway, dropping the names.

Speaker 2: 22:59

I got you Well.

Speaker 1: 23:00

I'm just trying to say, like these are the, these are the people. Yes, I'm not really what I just did, you know, look, robert Glover with nice guy stuff. Like he's at the front end of healing the nice guy you know.

Speaker 2: 23:09

John. This is why I'm asking you, because you yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. And you know, gs's the thing. What I love about the self-growth community is that it's sorting out the wounds. It's sorting out the like you know, behaviors, the patterns, like that's really important. That's that's the work we have to do. We have to look internally and say, like, what's off in myself that I need to heal, that I need to come into alignment with. That's great.

Speaker 1: 23:36

What I'm really seeing, though, right now is there's a lot of hunger for the future, like where do I go with this? Like once I've healed some of these things, now what? And you actually need to have both. And so a lot of the work I'm doing with men these days is really future oriented, and it's future and self oriented, and what I mean by that is it's like let's heal our stuff, but let's also look at what is the compelling future I'm creating with my life. What am I doing with my life? Is because I've been in self-growth work for a long enough time and it was missing. It's a big gap, and so I looked at okay, what is that about?

Speaker 1: 24:04

And first of all, it's about we have a lack of elders, and elders are the wisdom keepers that would be compelling us forward so we don't have any elders that are telling 40 year old men where they should go next. The second thing is we have lost the initiatory process completely. The most that we're having a conversation around is boys used to initiate into men and it's like, well, yeah, but also men used to initiate into fatherhood, and then fathers used to initiate into eldership or elderhood, and it's like there's all these initiations that are missing, and those initiations are what compelled men into deeper and women to. Your initiations are built into you biologically. So from girl to womanhood, you know when you start to, when you have a period. That's your first initiation and birth is your second initiation. And then you know perimenopause and menopause like that's the third initiation that you know toward. You know a different status at this point in history. Now there's a whole extended possibility beyond that, um, before real elderhood or eldership I don't know what the right word is, but anyway.

Speaker 1: 24:56

So what I'm trying to tell you is the missing piece in self-growth is and what is this for? Like, why are we doing this? Like, where are we going now? And so when I work with men, I really I start with what's the compelling future you're here to create? And almost always men go. I have no idea, I don't know. I was just here to heal something and I'm like, yeah, good for you, that's great, we're gonna do that. But why that and? And? That's the missing piece. And so I and I don't see a lot of people talking about this, even though it's critical.

Speaker 1: 25:26

You know mastermind groups that's where it's happening, cause they're like, okay, what are we creating and how do we create for it? But the mastermind group without the holistic heart element is not a holistic forward thinking group. And so, you know, I have a mastermind group I'm forming just around. You know, business and growth, and that's great, but all the people that are in that have already done the heart work so that they're like operating from a wider heart awareness. And, um, I don't want to get too kind of out there with this conversation, but what it all comes down to is compelling future vision. That's it. Do you have a compelling future vision for your life? And if you don't, that is the number one thing you should focus on. And in the absence of that, we have a bunch of people that are, just like you know, stuck in the experience of the moment of now, without understanding why they're doing anything. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 26:10

Yeah, this is so wild because I feel like for me, for so long in the working world it was all about where am I, where am I heading, what's the metric, what's the goal, where am I heading? And I really struggled to be present. And now I've spent several years healing and shadow work, being in my body, embodiment practices and all of that, and I can see where one could get stuck in this cycle of like. I love that question. Okay, for what? Why? For what? What? What is the? For me, right now, it's about what am I birthing? What am I creating? What is in that space? That's compelling and that, to me, comes from source, you know there's it's all interconnected.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Okay, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And let me just say and this is actually one of the dangers of self growth space because, like, if you're in these spaces where everything feels good now, cause there's love, and we're like activated and we feel fully expressed, but we're not bringing that into our life with a compelling future vision, then we're just going to be stuck in. It's like, it's like you got stuck on. It's almost like you were taken out for an initiation but you never returned to the village, and so you're just out in the woods around the fire, dancing night after night after night, cause you're like, oh, this initiation feels so good. But it's like, yeah, but why? Why do we do that?

Speaker 1: 27:26

You know, don't get stuck in the woods like, bring it back home and, as I went as I went through these kinds of self-growth spaces on my end, I was actually really shocked at the lack of men that were like no, this is why I'm doing this, like, meanwhile, I'm over here and I'm like I've got a wife and I've got kids and I'm building a company and I'm doing this really so I can create bigness in the world for my family, and everyone else is just like I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing with my life. And I was like yeah, you said, you've said that for three years in a row, though. Like where are you going? You know very few men have that men need to do Get clear and make choices today. You know that's so good.

Speaker 2: 28:04

I love what you were saying about the elders too. That just hit hit me when you said that like we don't have elders anymore and I feel that with with women, even though women seem to be more connected, I'm like where are the women that have gone before me, that that I admire and that are integrating all of the things right? Like it's, it's not a part of our society. I think our culture, like it, is an other cult. Maybe that's my perception, maybe it's incorrect. Like around the world, I feel like other cultures are better at being multi-generational and helping initiate into next phases. We can learn from that.

Speaker 1: 28:39

The reason that the United States and Australia lack elders is because we broke the generational lines when people immigrated here and in a lot of cases we didn't recreate them. And so you know, if you go to some, like in the Cajun South, you have multi generations. In the Italian part of Boston you have multi generations, but by and large across the country you don't. When you go back to Europe, you know there are families that multi-generation in the same town, like people are multi-generation. You know the way we always have throughout humankind and the reason we were able to break that is because of the luxury we have. We as a single generation can make enough money that we don't need our parents, or we think we don't need our parents, but wait until you have kids. Like when you have kids it's like, oh fuck, where's all my parents, where are the people? You know, when I chose my wife, I chose a woman that had a family lineage, close and active, because I was like I want to create a family dynamic that has more of the old way, you know, village, raise the kids kind of thing. You know, our kids never went to daycare. They went to their grandmother's house, their aunt's house, their grandmother's best friend's house, like the village. They raised my children and I did that by design. So did my wife. That's also why I chose my wife. But you know, it matters Now the piece that you said what happened?

Speaker 1: 29:47

Or I think you said something like where are the elders? Yeah, they're missing. They've absolved themselves of responsibility over our culture, and I'm working on calling it back. Like I'm in conversation with some men that are a little older and I've just basically said, like listen, be on the ready, because in five or six years, I want to activate you as an elder in my community, because we need you and we need you to stop focusing on like I'm free and I can do my life by myself. Now we need to get you back in the game, back in play as elder men to guide the young ones.

Speaker 1: 30:09

When, by the time, my kid's 14 years old, I'm going to launch a community for 14 to 18 year old boys and basically it'll be like a summer camp for kids, the. It'll be an initiation, basically, and in that initiatory space I'll have 14 to 18 year old boys, I'll have 25 year old boys, 45 year old men and I'll have 80 year old men, and every night we'll start in that place. This is what we're doing. And then every morning it's like the younger men take the men. You know what I mean. So there's a whole way, and I'm going to do this by the time my kids old enough to start. So I've got four years to build.

Speaker 1: 30:39

I'm building it. Yeah, I've got four years to build. I'm building it Next. Yeah, imagine 200 kids and 500 men holding a massive movement of men in the Appalachians of North Carolina, like that's what I'm doing because we're missing it. We're missing it and the elders? They've checked out.

Speaker 2: 30:55

They've checked out. This is so hitting me on a few different levels. I'm going to go personal on you if that's okay.

Speaker 1: 31:00

Yeah, of course, my Well can I?

Speaker 2: 31:01

I'm going to go personal on you, but that's okay. Yeah, of course my dad passed away seven years ago and prior to him passing away, he he was a very like Christian man but very to himself, and when my girls were really little, he he was talking about like could we like live in a house together and he wanted to like be a part. And the only way that I could or the what part and the only way that I could or the what he would share, the only way that he could see himself like being of use, was to help impart wisdom into my, my kids, because he wasn't connected anywhere else and he didn't want to be connected anymore to the religious like church structure. But I don't think he like had there been, had there been, had there been something like this for him.

Speaker 1: 31:48

Yeah, it's, exactly, it's huge, yeah, it's huge.

Speaker 2: 31:51

It's huge with purpose and that vision. And why am I doing this? Why am I healing? Why am I doing this? And you have men at that age that either they've like you said I think maybe there's a little bit of a spectrum here too right Like they've absolved themselves of responsibility, or they feel like nobody cares, like nobody, like that's how my dad felt. He's like I'm kind of useless, I'm discarded, yeah Well you know what's really interesting?

Speaker 1: 32:17

Just to yeah. So I invited a couple of elders that are in an old, like they had a men's work community in New Orleans years ago, like nineties in the nineties, and, um, they still meet and there's only like eight of them left, cause a lot of them have passed away. They're in their seventies and eighties. And I invited them to my men's circle once and my hope was that they would sit there and be able to operate as elders, and what I noticed is that they actually just considered themselves like men among men. And I was like, nah, this isn't right. And so I asked him about it. I was like.

Speaker 1: 32:45

I was like you know, I'd really love for you guys to just be able to give clear feedback from a place of like wisdom. And they were like, yeah, but that's not how we operate in our men's space. Like we to choose their own path. And I was like man. So what I realized is, if I'm going to, if I'm going to create this, I actually have to train the elders from my position, which is kind of weird. It's like backwards, but at least I can look at what is the what is our need Like? What do elders need to rest in life so that they can sit from that seat of wisdom at the head of a room.

Speaker 2: 33:30

You know what I mean, oh, Max good work.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Yeah, well, thanks. That's so great Like if I if I onboarded someone like your dad and he'd be like, look, no-transcript, and now I can give you a syllabus that you get to teach from. And here you go, and now I'll call on you when that thing comes up in the room, like that's how it's going to work. And it has to work that way because we've got to get back to these structures. It's coming out now, but I'm building really cool things, and that's one of them.

Speaker 2: 34:01

Four years, four years that's my timeline for that one. I can't wait to watch it unfold. This is amazing, I love it, I love it so much Okay, we're going to take a left turn. You ready? Oh geez, let me get my earbuds back in first. All good, okay, I got a lot of questions in preparation from my podcast listeners um what they wanted to hear from you, and so I've got a list here and I'm just going to start working through it, are you?

Speaker 1: 34:27

ready Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:28

Okay, I'm going to read this scenario. I mean, actually it's like story time with Jen. You ready? Okay, there's this guy I've had my eye on online through Instagram. I've been doing what I can to put my vibes out there and show him that I'm a bad-ass. I slid into his DMS but I'm trying really hard not to pursue him. I want to go out with him but don't want to ask him how do I pursue a man without switching up the polarity?

Speaker 1: 34:51

Yeah, really great question. Be fearless and don't worry about the polarity. You can reclaim it later. That's really true.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Oh, okay, I was not expecting this.

Speaker 1: 35:02

Men are dense, men are dense and so, listen, I'm in my life, I'm doing my thing. The only way someone can get into my life at this point is to be loud and to be like I want in Right, like that's really true, I did not expect this at all.

Speaker 2: 35:14

I know Well, I did not expect this max.

Speaker 1: 35:16

And and there's a, there's a flexibility to polarity that has to be worked over time. But look, if this guy is out there doing his life, he's not paying attention to anything, and if he's solid. Look, I don't notice women, like I don't notice people in the world, and so if there's a woman that wants to join my team or join my company or something like, you've got to show up with some strength, some vitality and be like I want to work for you, what's up, because I have no business seeing it. So this man, I don't know who he is, he's probably just doing his life and he also might have a sensitivity where he's like I don't want to flirt with anyone on the internet because otherwise me too, or whatever, like who knows, who knows what his situation is. So if, if this woman that asked you this question, if she's listening, state your which she is Okay, yeah, state your intention Just send him a message and be like hey, I want to meet you, that's it, that's your desire.

Speaker 1: 36:00

Your heart's desire is I want to meet you. That's that's great. I would love to meet you. Oh good, You're in your heart, how delightful. And he might go oh, that's interesting. Okay, yeah, I would love. I'd love that. Or he might be like well, I'm not available, or he might be like I'm it. This is so not what I was expecting at all, because I feel like at least the space that I'm in or have the.

Speaker 2: 36:28

you know, I'm reading a lot about manifestation and law of attraction and like all of this. Like how do I magnetize? And feminine energy is magnetic and masculine is electric, and so so it's this whole. Like she asked me this question, like I don't know what the answer is, I'm wrestling with it too. I'm going to ask Max.

Speaker 1: 36:46

Yeah, well, okay. So there's two things that are true. So one, to evoke through your beingness Great, great way to work. But if you have a target, like if you have a person that you're very specifically looking at, that's a different circumstance, you know what.

Speaker 1: 36:58

I mean, I don't know, like that's another possibility. Help, yeah, exactly. But no, like in all seriousness, look, because she's asking about a very specific guy. Get in there, get in there and just like, be vocal. And here's the other thing it's actually pretty trustable that he's not reaching out to her. It's pretty trustable that he's not reaching out to her. It's pretty trustable and that's a good sign. And that's exactly the kind of man you'd want to be with, because you know he's not being like oh, there's like tasty energy coming through. My DMS are in the field of me and he's just not responding to it. So that's actually a really good sign. You know what I?

Speaker 2: 37:34

mean yeah, I like that, that's good. Ok, what does that mean? How do we do that?

Speaker 1: 37:40

So, if you're, if you want to, just in the world of manifestation, our beingness will create what we are here to you know to receive. So you know my beingness is I'm sharp, I'm forward thinking and I create powerfully Right. And so the men that come around me from my men's circles are like I want to learn how to be that, and that's great, because I can work in a field of that that. I'm not attracting people that don't want to be held accountable, that don't want to be disciplined, and you know what I mean. So my beingness attracts a certain type of person that responds well to feedback and can crush it at life. That's great. Um, when I was dating, I was very, I was very much like this, basically with a little more play, um, and, and I would go on dates from this place and like, and, and, and. So what I could discern very quickly was can this woman rise to be a partner in my here? This is what I'm here to create, you know and 20.

Speaker 1: 38:28

It was like 19 people I mean, I think realistically it was something between 16 and 19 people that I dated before I found my wife, and every single one of them couldn't hand a torch or couldn't hold a torch to my energy, and, you know, some of them wanted to dance with it. But I'm like no, that's not what I'm here for. When I met my wife, I was like what's up, where are you at? And she's like I want to find a man that I can do life with. And I was like, damn, there it is. That's the strength of spine that I'm looking for in a woman, you know. So, whatever, A powerful woman.

Speaker 1: 38:52

a powerful woman holds both the masculine and feminine truly, and by holding the masculine, she knows what she's here to be a stand for. That's really important. And so if you're a woman listening and you're only practicing and you're feminine, you're missing the part that self speaks, that has self responsibility, that self leads, and so anyway, hopefully that helps, I think that's great.

Speaker 2: 39:12

Okay, along those lines, what do conscious men find most attractive in women?

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yeah, it's a great question. First of all, what does conscious men mean? You, I'm in yeah, it's a great question.

Speaker 1: 39:25

First of all, what does conscious men mean? You tell me. Okay, as a disclaimer, when people say conscious men, I roll my eyes because what does it mean? And, honestly, I've spent enough time in the conscious community that I, I don't know. I don't know. I trust men that are crushing it at life. Are they conscious? Who knows? I don't know. Like they're solid, they're here to lead, they're here to create beautifully. They have good relationships with their mothers, like that's the kind of stuff that I would speak to.

Speaker 2: 39:48

Like that's what you're looking for, you know, would you like, would you replace the word conscious with something else like healthy or good? Ooh Okay.

Speaker 1: 39:58

Right, where are the good men? You know it's a lot better of a term, has more meaning. So anyway, um, and also just because I've been around consciousness space and the consciousness space, you know, whether it's like, uh, ecstatic dance, uh, plant medicine, people like all that. Like I don't see men leading in that space, like I don't see men that are serious, I don't, I, I've been around it a long time and what I see is a bunch of men that are I'm trying to find myself, I'm trying to figure it out. It's like good for you, go ahead, let me know when you're ready. But then there's good men that are like this is what I'm doing in life, you know. And so I just, I just want to, really I want to land on this here, because people need to stop going.

Speaker 1: 40:35

I'm a real man, a good man. Feel like what is a real man of integrity, vitality and determination. Feel like and why, why, why, why are we not aware of that? Why is it this other thing? So, anyway, what do good men want in a woman? Respect, loyalty, vitality, as in energy. Loyalty, vitality as in energy, embodied pleasure as in desires, intimacy. Wants to create intimacy, and not for him, but for her Because she loves it, wants it, desires it, and for him Because you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 41:15

So I would really start there.

Speaker 1: 41:17

Respect, loyalty, vitality and pleasure In her body, embodied pleasure. Those are the things that real men, good men, solid men, want, and you know the ability to create with a bigger vision. I would, I would really argue that good men really want a woman that's seated in a position of relationship to God, not like I don't know life, it's like shallow and whatever we just do these things like bigger vision. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 41:42

Yeah, that's good to hear too. Depth, Would you add depth to that? Is that kind? Of this idea like connected to God? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Connected to God would be depth. Future vision would be depth. Yeah, you know, a bigger reason for life would be depth, but the capacity to actually look at what is happening emotionally, that's depth. So, emotional intelligence. But you know, I I think most good men aren't really looking for an emotionally intelligent woman. They don't know what that means, but they're looking for a woman that has the capacity to be compassionate and sharp when needed. You know.

Speaker 2: 42:16

Hmm, okay, cool, I like that.

Speaker 1: 42:19

Yeah, yeah, okay, that's it.

Speaker 2: 42:22

Um, here's a specific scenario for you. Again, I did the feminine this is a male I did the feminine cleanse and now I'm getting back into the dating scene. As I'm beginning the dating process, is it more of a sorting through people and weeding out the non fits or is it more of a process seeing potential matches, choosing one and then making that one the best choice? Ie, there isn't a wrong option, just choose one and make it the right one.

Speaker 1: 42:48

There's a lot of wrong options. Yeah, yeah, as a man, when you're dating, look, listen to me really closely. I dated 20 people. I chose the 20th I sorted through. I was like where's the woman that can show up in life, has a good relationship to her mom, wants to have kids? Like where's that woman? You know.

Speaker 1: 43:08

And I just dated until I found it and most people are incapable I'd say 85% of people. If you're, if you're trying to go high, high bar life, like really high quality life, you know sort sort through it. Don't go on second dates with people that you know are not aligned with your deeper what are you doing in life?

Speaker 2: 43:24

Well, when you talked about this on our first episode just like getting clear on the front end of what it is that you want and I think to your point earlier about like not not knowing what the vision is or what I'm creating or why I'm healing If I don't know that, how can I also know what I want or need in a partner?

Speaker 1: 43:40

And yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 43:41

Yeah, and then you're dating from a space of just like well, I don't know, he's hot.

Speaker 1: 43:45

Yeah, and then you got to rely on chemistry, which is like the shallowest thing you could possibly fall in love yeah, so anyway yeah, so, so.

Speaker 1: 43:52

But there is something else that he said in the question that I really want to. When I found my wife, I said this is great and I'm choosing her and I'm all in. And then I went all in on that. But it wasn't on a future potential, it was the woman that's sitting in front of me checks all the boxes that I need. She's devoted to her family, she wants to create children and love and relationship, and she has a good relationship to her mom. That's it. That's really, and a spiritual practice. She had a spiritual practice. Relationship to God. I will say yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:22

So when you said you went all in on it, that was like I'm choosing this one and I'm and she's right, I'm choosing this one and I'm making it the right one by like going all in on it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:32

Yeah, okay, no, back doors, burn the boats. It's like all in on this one and we're going to figure this out.

Speaker 2: 44:38

Yeah, that's so good, she also she also had a kid.

Speaker 1: 44:40

She had a three-year-old, my son. Uh, he was three when I met her and I I wasn't going to mess. I wasn't going to mess like, mess around with that, like, if I'm coming into this dynamic, I'm coming in fully and I'm going to choose it. And so I did my pre-work, um, and then I just went yeah, I'm in by the second date, I mean really by the first date.

Speaker 2: 44:56

I knew so this is a side question. What do you think of dating apps?

Speaker 1: 45:03

I think they're fine. I think I found my wife on Tinder.

Speaker 2: 45:06

Oh, did you Tinder yeah?

Speaker 1: 45:07

yeah, yeah, yeah. Dating apps are important because we have lives and everyone uses them and also, you don't need to use them. You can go organic. You can go the old way, you know. You can work through your networks. You can ask your friends. Anyone know any men? Um, you know, it's dating is, it's look. The way I work in life is, if I want to achieve something, I go. What's available to me, how are the different possibilities and avenues that I can create this? And so I definitely use dating apps. I definitely tried not using dating apps and going organically and I don't know.

Speaker 1: 45:38

You know, what's interesting about my wife is that her and I went to the same bakery. Um, and so like we literally probably saw each other multiple times, but when I went to that bakery, I was just like going to get my things and get out of there. The other thing that's interesting is a year before we met, she was looking for a men's work facilitator in New Orleans, where I live online. So she was basically like looking for me because I was that guy, I'm the men's work facility. I wasn't online and so like she was looking. She had just divorced her ex-husband and was like really trying to figure out like dude go see, like men's work people like go find this, so she was looking for literally me and like so, like there was already an energetic thing happening in the field around us with magnets and you know like you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 46:20

We probably walked by each other multiple times. I probably saw her, I probably saw her and just went and just you know cause I was sort of buttoned up and keeping to myself.

Speaker 2: 46:28

So anyway, yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1: 46:31

So, yeah, I found her on Tinder and I'm I. I support dating apps fully, but also I think that you know, get off the app as soon as you can.

Speaker 2: 46:37

Yeah, I asked because I've read articles about just kind of this. It's it's meant to give you these hits, right, it's like Instagram, it's like Facebook. You get the likes and then you do. You have this fatigue or this idea of like I have endless options and people have. If they're not going in, I think, with that kind of intention and direction and just like let's, let's figure this out and it's like, oh, this feels good, she's hit, she's hitting me up, this is, I feel like it can get. It could be not helpful if it's not intentional, which, like anything in life, I suppose. Okay, what else do we want to talk about here?

Speaker 1: 47:13

I don't know. You have some more questions. I think let's go, I have so many questions.

Speaker 2: 47:15

Okay, um, today, what if I so this, this, the woman? What if I was working all day and I've been in my masculine all day? I come home and would love for him to help me come into my feminine, but he's also been working all day in his masculine. What do we do if both of us have been in our masculine all day? Who's the one to rub the other person's back?

Speaker 1: 47:39

Yeah, I love this question and I want to break it down because there's two parts to it. There's a missing, there's masculine and feminine, which is like leadership and feeling and and being in the essence of now, uh, from an embodied state. Like that is a foundational teaching. But what we're talking about here is not that. We're not actually talking about. We're in our masculine. What we're talking about is when I'm in work mode, I get really rigid and I get really linear and small in my thoughts and my thought, like do you understand what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 48:05

Yeah that's not the masculine, that's just an energetic way of being that we have to become so that we can create powerfully and work. And so I just am saying that because it's actually not your masculine, it's actually just an energetic lane that you're stuck in because of your work mode. So what do we do with that? I believe it's our self-responsibility to chip that away and become open to I'm here, I'm available, and so I do it as a man. You know, I take like after, after dinnertime, um, you know, after I've got the kids and everybody's fed and we're like good. I'll often take a bath just to soften my body and come out of my mind and my like career mode and just go okay, I'm here, what do we need to do tonight? And so that's not me going into my feminine, that's me getting out of this like rigid, hard, like day mode. You know, does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 48:52

Like re re-presencing, sort of like yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:57

So like re re-presencing is what we have to do from an embodied place.

Speaker 1: 49:01

And so this woman that's asking I would start with, take responsibility and get back in your I feel good here now, and then from that place he has an access point because he's going to feel your present and if he is also doing the work of awareness around, like all right, let me shake my day off and come to be with you.

Speaker 1: 49:17

You know, it might be something that you know, I'm not sitting my wife down and like like rubbing her back, but like by the time you were together at night, like my hands on her leg, we're sitting next to each other. We might even like off gas some energy just through, like talking and sharing things about the day, like, but at some point we kind of come together and then we start to, you know, and so if you, if this woman, really wants like her back rubbed, maybe there's like a ritual you create with your partner where it's like all right, when I get home, like, could you, can you just rub my back every night, like my shoulders, like just for a minute, and then I'm going to go take a bath, and then it's like you know what I mean you can, you can create that for sure, you can request the specific things we want.

Speaker 2: 49:53

I really want my back rubbed every day.

Speaker 1: 49:56

You could ask for. Like if it's a real thing that the person wants, create that as ritual, as love, you know.

Speaker 2: 50:04

I love that. Yeah, Okay, I need to feel.

Speaker 1: 50:07

Here's how here's how you invite it. If you're that woman, go. I really need to feel your hands on me. I feel all like.

Speaker 2: 50:12

Ooh. I like the way you put that. I really need to feel your hands on me.

Speaker 1: 50:17

Yeah, a man will respond well to that, rather than I need a back massage, like that's meaningless. So anyway woman, try that, see how that works. I bet he'll respond.

Speaker 2: 50:27

Oh, that's great. Okay, this has been off of the first conversation we have and I feel like you actually referenced this earlier in our conversation today this kind of like where are all the conscious men? Ie, good men, yeah, I don't know if we what we want to call this, if we want to call this a bias, that we see the world through the lens that we see the world through.

Speaker 2: 50:49

But just cut into this idea that we have beliefs that live in our body and in our mind that are causing us to see what we're going to see. Can we do you know where I'm going with this occurring?

Speaker 1: 51:00

kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:01

Okay. So if you have a woman that's like, this is my experience, or a man for that matter, I'm experiencing that 90% of the men are not good men in my world. Um, where are the good men? Is there something that they can do to start shifting what they see and experience?

Speaker 1: 51:19

What are you doing in that world? Like what? What is like if someone's saying that like, what are you doing in a world where there's not good people?

Speaker 2: 51:26

You know what I mean. And why is it that that's what you're attracted to and so, um you know, there was a, there was a moment I feel like we need to pause on that. Yeah, like why is it that? That's what you're attracted to? Just even just people reflecting and being. Because this comes back to the victim responsibility thing, like why do I? Where are all these bad men in my life? It's like, ooh, but where's your responsibility in that? Why are you?

Speaker 1: 51:50

what are you?

Speaker 2: 51:51

attracted to yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:53

I had an interesting moment I'm just going to just so during part of my like reclamation of self process after my divorce. Um, I went to burning man a couple of times and I kind of looped in with some artists making art and it was, uh, it was cool. It was just sort of a fun thing that I did to kind of just be like full expression of self and, um, it was a part of my healing and grief. And so, anyway, what I really noticed after like a couple of years of being looped in with these people is I was like wow, this is a messy group of people, like this is a lot of drugs, this is a lot of addiction, this is a lot of like doesn't have their life together and they're pouring all their energy into the thing that makes them feel good, but they have nothing together in their real life. And you know, I think that the burning community, the burning man community like there's a lot of that there's also people that are really successful and they're crushing it at life and they go out there to like have a good.

Speaker 1: 52:34

Am I in this world? Why am I still around this? This is not where I want to be, and so I, I cut it off really quickly and I went no, I want to be like clean, I want to be in spaces with really self-responsible, high integrity and like energetically tight people and uh, and so I shifted where I was at and I shifted the kind of people I had around me. And it was really interesting because as soon as I shifted where I was at and I shifted the kind of people I had around me, and it was really interesting because as soon as I shifted, I noticed, wow, this feels like a different world.

Speaker 1: 53:06

And I started to notice things differently because I was surrounded by, like my wife's friend group. All her friends are like pretty conservative, like down to earth women. Many of them are Christian, many of them are holistic and healthy in terms of how they navigate the world and um, and so a lot of her friends are just like clean, like they're clean people and they're clean on their purpose and they're clean on what they're here to do. And as I like felt that and I felt their husbands, I was like man, this is like a different realm of humanity and I'm not saying we should all shift back to like Christian communities, but I was just like there's something right about the way that these people envision and live out their lives. That is definitely missing in places like ecstatic dance, burning man, consciousness stuff is like all those spaces like that is a dark, dark space really.

Speaker 2: 53:53

You know what I mean there is a thread you're weaving through this conversation today that I'm just like you are bringing some spice on this stuff and I like it. I appreciate the clarity around it, because it's not I'm not hearing a lot of that be said and I think it's good to hear it because there's a perception it's as glamorized the right word I don't know what's the right word I'm looking for like it's, it's put on a pedestal in the the like holistic healing world I think of. Like, oh, this is, this is what we're moving towards, but it's lacking a groundedness, you know, and it's also, we're getting stuck in the forest around the fire.

Speaker 2: 54:27

It's the thing I said, yeah, it is all of benefit.

Speaker 1: 54:30

You know, maybe you do like, maybe you do plant medicine once, maybe you go to Burning man, maybe you do these things to kind of break out of your old way and become something new. But then if you get stuck in it and you're still in it three, four or five years, it's like, well, you're stuck at the initiation but not in the growth that should come from it.

Speaker 2: 54:44

Right and so.

Speaker 1: 54:45

I really yeah, yeah, I mean there is a thread and you know what it is. I've just I'm tired of seeing it. I'm tired of seeing people that even seven, eight, nine years later they're still in like the one-on-one level space and it's like where are and part of what you I wanted to circle back to this kind of process of shedding shedding relationships and moving.

Speaker 2: 55:06

I think that's something that we know needs to happen, but that is a hard thing to do, to say oh, I'm going to cut this off. Do you have insight on that, how you did that or how you would tell somebody to navigate shifting their environment?

Speaker 1: 55:21

The way that I coach it. I mean, I did it over a long period of time but I was really pretty clean with how I did it, what I do when I'm coaching people, as I go, take an inventory of all the people you're engaging with across 30 days, or you think about across those 30 days like anyone that's in your field. So for 30 days you're just logging here are the people I'm communicating with, and then you just assign them a role. So it's like professional relationship, like familial relationship, friend, acquaintance, and then you gauge whether just plus or minus feels good, doesn't feel good, and you just track it. And so you just track like, oh, when that person's in my consciousness, I don't feel good.

Speaker 1: 55:56

I feel like there's a tension because I don't know what to do with that person. We have a thing that's unresolved, okay, that's a negative. Or, oh, I'm thinking about this person. I love that person. I have an old friend. I'll just just personally. I have an old friend. His name is Pete. He's great. I've known him since high school. Actually, I knew him in third grade, but anyway, we were in bands together in high school and I don't talk to him very often, but I love that guy, and whenever I think about Pete, he's a good friend of mine.

Speaker 1: 56:22

And so he's just always he's, he's always going to be in my like close circle of friends. I text him occasionally, he texts me occasionally and like I'm not going to, I'm not going to get rid of that. But then I have some other people from that era in time where I have no communication with and I have no desire to. And then since then, my whole life, since high school. I graduated in 2000. So since 2000, through the past 24 years, the only people that are around me are people that when I think about them or they text me, I'm like yes, this feels good. Hi, how are you? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 56:50

Yeah, yeah. So you plus or minus them and then you just start distancing yourself. You just start saying no, thank you. Do you have a heads on like conversation where you're like hey, listen you're not.

Speaker 1: 57:06

You're not making the cut.

Speaker 2: 57:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:08

Yeah, I just I dole out restraining orders like crazy. It's a really, it's a solid process.

Speaker 2: 57:13

I don't want to deal with it. Let's let the police and the sheriff's department. They are out forever.

Speaker 1: 57:15

There is no gray here. No, I mean there is. The threshold of, of boundary is really an interesting thing. Sometimes you just need to let it go and you just, or like, over the course of a year, like you just don't entertain when, if they, if they like, go, hey, like, I'd love to get together this week, you could just be like. You know, I hear you I'm not available. I really don't have a lot of space these days to get together with friends, like and like with with all the respects. I just it's not in my wheelhouse, you know, and I have found that I haven't.

Speaker 1: 57:52

I was able to just let people kind of go and um, and they sort of go away, um. But the other thing is some people, you know, have kept going like, hey, I really want to hang out and I've just been like man, I just don't have time. You know I don't have time and that's not really something I'm doing these days. I'm not really hanging out with people and most of those people have sorted out, naturally, um, and then the one guy that didn't sort out, the guy that's like, hey, I'm going to get on your calendar, I let him. He's great and he's really, he's really solid and I actually love him and, and, and there's a part of me that's like I'm going to keep this guy around, you know.

Speaker 1: 58:23

I, because I buttoned up so tightly that no one had their like. This is again. This is the thing I'm I was talking about earlier. I buttoned up so tightly that, like no one had access to me energetically a couple of years ago and this guy stayed the course and he was just like man, I just want to get on your calendar and I I didn't. He wasn't a negative to me, but he also was just like I was in a moment where everyone was shut off and his resilience and commitment to being like dude, I want to support you and I need your support. Like I uh, I saw him the other day and I was just like I fucking love this guy and so you know that is a, that is a part of it. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 58:56

Like I'm not trying to cut everybody out but I did cut everybody out so I could be really clean. And then some people kind of stuck around beyond my like, not really hanging out with anybody these days, and I and I got to say you know, this one's a good one, he's a keeper, it's a good dude.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Yeah, I've had a couple of those in my life too, that I'm like they're. They're sort of insistent and as you open that up and go, okay, well, let's hang out, and they go, this is cool, they had a sense of something that I couldn't see and there's, there's something here that's really great. Yeah, but not an easy process to weed that through. I just saw this like dumb thing on Instagram. It was a bunch of metronomes, that that that somebody started them all at separate times have you?

Speaker 1: 59:35

seen this before.

Speaker 2: 59:36

And they all, like naturally sync up. And it's just this metaphor for, like, we really do get impacted by the people, even just energetically, that are around us, and I I feel that that it's a real thing and how is it impacting all of the things in all of our life? It's a big deal.

Speaker 1: 59:52

The heart math Institute did some science on this and it's actually real. You could measure you. If you take a person that's depressed and you put them in a room and you have a sheet and somebody walks in that room and you measured their energy. They become depressed. It's real. It's real. We are impacted energetically by the people we are surrounded by, and so if we're surrounded by people who are messy, who are depressed, who are anxious, who are on pharmaceuticals and completely disembodied, we are going to be confused energetically. It's going to muck up our energetic field and people, whatever people are going to have whatever response to that that I have. But the truth is, I only surround myself with people that are vital, that are determined, disciplined and capable of creating empowered lives, either as men or women, and I actually don't surround myself with any women. My wife has her friends and I, like my director, is a woman, but aside from that, yeah, Right.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

How do you reconcile that with like making an impact on the people that aren't vibrating that way? Do you know what I mean? Like, within the church world, there was just kind of this like impact on the people that aren't vibrating that way. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 1:00:47

Like within the church world there was just kind of this like you know, you become the sum of the five people that you surround yourself with, don't surround yourself with all the people that are like, like depressed and like messy and all of that stuff. But then there still was this sort of um, I feel compelled to reach those people or impact those people or call, like this responsibility towards helping raise the collective. How do you do you wrestle with those two things? How do you?

Speaker 1: 1:01:15

reconcile those. I don't really wrestle with it and the reason is because I'm fierce in my boundary around savior complex stuff, like I'm not here to save anybody. I'm over here in the woods around my fire. If you want to get down with this, meet me out here. That's it, everybody else. And I just assume like the majority of people aren't down with it. Good for you, good luck.

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

Yeah, oh, I like that. I heard something the other day about that. This woman was on a podcast and she was talking about she didn't use the word saver mentality, but she's like. I realized that I was out to like, help these people. Yeah, she used hero mentality, like and save these people, because I was uncomfortable with my own, with my own self. It's codependency, right. It's like, instead of me deal with my own stuff and be present with myself, I'm going to focus on fixing all of you. It's which is an interesting dynamic.

Speaker 1: 1:02:04

Yeah, it's. I mean this, the whole dynamic that's underneath the savior complex or the healer anyone that calls himself a healer. That's a super red flag. What that is is it's people that gain self-value through the helping other people and like, like. My self-value is inherent in my beingness. I'm just, I'm good, I'm a good, I'm a good dude, I'm solid, my wife loves me, I love my wife, I love my kids. Boom, I'm solid and I can create powerfully in the life. That's where my self-value comes from the work that I do. I am here to help people, but only the kind of people that are really like down to like, crush, like, let's crush let's be good men, let't figure out my fucking life.

Speaker 2: 1:02:51

I'm just like, okay, good for you. Let me know you don't feel the need to like go down and grab them by the hair and like pull them out of that. You're just like cool. When you're ready, when you're ready to come over by the fire, come on over or don't yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

Okay, cool, yeah Well you know, in the military, like the Navy SEALs aren't accepting first year like recruits. You know what?

Speaker 1: 1:03:07

I mean Like they're not and they can't have them around because they're a liability for, like, the success of that group of people, and so you have to do like years of intense training to be in the realm of powerful people and and they, they. I'm just going to say like I'm here to create power in my life and in the lives of men that want power healthy power, and so it's like that's what I focus on.

Speaker 2: 1:03:34

Makes sense? Yes, it does. I'm like okay, max, max is on fire. All right, I have more questions for you. Um, what can women to what can women we'll say men do? As, let me start over. What can women and men do to prepare for their future partner?

Speaker 1: 1:03:56

For men to prepare for a future partner. You want to really just be dialed on your purpose and your capacity to serve and create from a providership role. And so what that means is get good at business, get good at your craft, get good at some sort of trade. Like, if you're a 10 year old, 15 year old, 20 year old man, go all in on craft, all in on trade. Figure something out If you're 25 to 35, take that craft and expand it so you can create bigger money with it, create a nest so that you can provide from it.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

That's how you prepare for real like a powerful relationship as a man, as a woman. Get really clear like who is your village, who are the people you're surrounded with. Heal your wounds with your parents, heal your wounds with your mother. Like, really like, become I am free from wound and I'm here to love and create love. And then if you want to do career stuff too, great, that's fine, Do that. But also, like, get clear on what am I really here to do? You know, one of the things my wife really is here to do is just become like an impeccable mother and like really like steward our family from that side and um, and what?

Speaker 1: 1:04:53

What I realized once I met my wife was I was like, ah, I've got to go like triple hard on business because I want to free her from the burden of career, Like she doesn't necessarily want to work that job anymore. I want to give her space to decide what she wants to do. And what she wants to do is more in the realm of art and creation and food and you know, uh, tinctures and like holistic stuff and like whatever. And so it's like, how do I create space for her to live out that creative life? And so, uh, yeah, as a woman, you know, do your work to heal, become free to love and create from that place. Or if you're a woman that just wants to be, like, empowered in career, cool, do that? I mean, all I can say is just be open to the possibility of what your deepest heart's desire is. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:05:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that for a second.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:05:36

Yeah, deepest heart desires. What do you see? The themes for men, women or, if you want to go, masculine, feminine energetics, what are, what are the deepest core desires?

Speaker 1: 1:05:49

Yeah, I, I really believe that for men, we just want to find home in our women.

Speaker 1: 1:05:54

We want to find home, safety and love in our women, like that's the deepest heart desire. And then in the realm of the world, we want to feel valued and impactful in our action, and so that could even just be like we're, we're the best mechanic in town, or it could be like I crush it in business, or it could be like I'm, you know, a philanthropist and no, like the financial spectrum, you can be amazing in any realm, at any degree of the financial spectrum. So I'm just trying to like label it. But, um, yeah, so the I in my home life, I'm home in my wife's love and in my world life I'm on fire with it, and so that's that's like my deepest heart desire. Now for her, yeah, to be loved, to be provided for, to be safe I think the deepest heart desire of the feminine is safety, really. And then love and to feel loved, valued, admired, desired, you know, and um, and and respected, you know, for that co-creation and co-leadership piece, does that feel right?

Speaker 2: 1:06:50

Yeah and seen. I think that kind of idea of like being really seen yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:57

And actually that's the real positive and beautiful piece of feminism and women's rights and all that um to be seen of equal value, right, and and like I, really I really get down with that. I love that. Like I think that women are of equal value. I think that women are of more value in certain realms than men, where men are in more value in certain realms than women. Like I think honoring the value of the feminine is huge and seeing it, you know, wisdom, intuition women have it on lock.

Speaker 1: 1:07:23

Men have to learn to really value that when women are you know, saying something like there's something they're saying that needs to be heard and understood.

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

So you had a reel the other day about um women being oracles.

Speaker 1: 1:07:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

Talk about what that means and how, what that experience is like.

Speaker 1: 1:07:42

This is really important. So the feminine oracle is an awareness piece. It's awareness of safety, it's awareness of needs, it's awareness of you know where are we at. It's a safety thing.

Speaker 1: 1:07:52

And so if you go back a hundred thousand years, women in the village are we safe? Are we good? What needs to happen? Men, mission and food providing, oriented right? And so it's like there's an inherent part of the feminine that really knows are we good, is everything safe? And so it's like there's an inherent part of the feminine that really knows are we good, is everything safe? And so when things aren't, it's going to kick up and it's going to kick up in whatever expressive way it needs to. So anything from like hey, we need to talk to like full bore rage that is coming from some oracle piece where, like the woman knows, things aren't right, true is, if the woman has like a real emotionally distressed like, if there's like a mental illness component or there's just something that's not sorted out around, emotional safety or early life trauma can affect this a lot and does. But anyway, a clean feminine being, her Oracle is just her knowing. It's her knowing and men have it, men have it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:39

But it's a little different. The masculine Oracle is sort of like the stars, it's like it's like the wayfinder thing, like men that can go like I know what we were doing, I know where we're heading, like that's sort of a star map, whereas the feminine Oracle is like the internal fire. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:08:54

Yeah, I feel that, I feel that and it I mean the reason I brought that up and coming back to that being seen is there's something that is so that feels really good, at least in my experience when, when I get a really strong intuitive kind of knowing or head and this would happen in work too where I'd be like, oh, like I can feel like this thing isn't the right way or we need to look at this different thing, and I it's almost like it just drops in and you're just like like what do I do with this? Will anyone hear me? Will anyone see this? And so that that kind of like. When there is a presence that is like we, we want to hear you because we trust and believe that there is something here that is an Oracle, whether they use that verbiage or not is like yeah, it's so empowering.

Speaker 2: 1:09:44

It's so empowering and it's empowering from a different place than like oh, this, this woman can make shit happen, Like that's different than like oh, I have a knowing right now and it feels different.

Speaker 1: 1:09:55

Yeah, there was a circumstance in my relationship with my wife recently that I just I I caught that she didn't feel super yes to something and I was like what is that about? And then I checked, I called a man and I was like I need some feedback on a circumstance so I can get my compass really right. Right, and I got good feedback and I was like, okay, this feels true. And I brought that to her and she's like, yes, that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:10:14

And so even recently, just in noticing that she was like I don't know if I feel super good about this decision. I was like, okay, let me check it.

Speaker 2: 1:10:32

Checked it came back, went boom, and so that's actually a very sensitive moment where I honored the Oracle and I I did what I needed to do, which is like get clarity that I could give her and have her settle. I love that example, that like real life, how that plays out, cause that's huge and for her to be, have this space to honor that and feel that. Cause it's so common to just feel like and maybe I'm being a little too sensitive to the thing, like we I have written that off so many times and I'm like I must be overly sensitive to this thing, but then really it's like it's an intuition that is animal, it's primal in nature, you know, yeah, it is.

Speaker 1: 1:11:02

Yeah, you know, there there is a healthy degree of self-inquiry that women will have to do, which is like is this just me being like me in my neurosis, or is this actually a true piece?

Speaker 1: 1:11:11

that I need to be seen. I mean, I have to do that too as a man. So it's not just a woman thing, but like there is a little bit of like I don't bring everything I think to my wife, I don't bring every emotion that I have to my wife. Like I clean up a lot of stuff on my own, and then if there's something that really needs to be addressed in this sphere of relationship, I go all right, here's what's up, or here's what I'd like you to know about how I feel, or here's what I need from you. But, like you know, does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:11:32

That's really good, yeah, and I feel like to me it's that practicing, it's exercising a muscle and just being like, let me, if this thing is intuitive or not. Once you start listening and then taking action on it, you can quickly see what was the neuroses and what was, what was not, what was intuitive. Yeah, that's really good, okay. Feminine responsiveness I had sort of like forgotten that this is a big component of the feminine and then was catching myself at the grocery store. I've I've been like eating intuitively. So I went to like the best grocery store, like with the yummiest, like organic food, and I was like standing in front of the peaches and caught myself going, hmm, like I just was like at the grocery store having a moment and then I was like, oh, this is the famine in me, just like experiencing something, and then be like so can you talk about the feminine, like responsiveness, what it is, how it shows up, how to cultivate it?

Speaker 1: 1:12:38

yeah, what I will say is that responsiveness expressed is a language, and it's a language that also is externally, like it creates externally, but it also like enlivens internally. Um, I heard a song the other day, you know. So again, I have a masculine and feminine side. I heard a song the other day and I just went oh, it's so good, it's so good what's the song?

Speaker 2: 1:13:04

good, what's the song?

Speaker 1: 1:13:06

It was probably that Teddy swims song.

Speaker 2: 1:13:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:10

I don't know the name of it, but anyway, like that, his voice, I actually what it was was I saw on Tik TOK. I saw he, like, he like, walked up to somebody and started singing it next to a piano and I was like my God, this dude, and I just was in the like, oh, of that no-transcript for my wife to be taken in such a way that feels good for her. I need to know when it's feeling good for her. And so responsiveness, like her responsiveness guides me. Like, oh, more of that, but clearly, and less of this, like, or there's no responsiveness.

Speaker 1: 1:13:58

Let me try something else. Like there's a whole game and I'm just using that as an example, but that can be extrapolated to any circumstance in life. And so, like, if, if, like the energy of a man walking in the room. Look, if I walk into a room and I have a certain energy, and she will like, likes it and wants more of it, if she's just like oh, I love, when you do that, uh, I'm going to be like, oh, shit, I'll do that more than clearly.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

And so you know responsiveness creates more of the life we're here to create. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:14:25

Yeah, that's really good.

Speaker 1: 1:14:27

So if we're not attuned to responsiveness, then well then we're not giving feedback to the realm around us that allows the realm to respond correctly to our desires.

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

It's real work. I feel like the embodiment, the practice of getting in your body and being even, and then it just happens naturally. It's a natural reaction, I guess is maybe the wrong word, but right, but I think I can. I can look back at years ago when I was like just so cut off.

Speaker 2: 1:14:57

I just was so living in my head and cut off from my sense of it, like embodiment, that yeah I don't know if I was that way I don't think I was that responsive like I wouldn't most people aren't I wouldn't met the peaches. Yeah, totally Well, we have to, we have to.

Speaker 1: 1:15:10

We have to be willing to take up space, and taking up space comes by doing it in realms where it's safe to like. So this is the reason why I like burning man and ecstatic dance and like self-growth work. Why it really matters and why getting in these spaces matter is because it reawakens the core things that we need to live as, and then we take that into our life and we play with it and we try it and we expand on it and that's the whole thing. And so integration of the stuff we do in these initiation spaces is crucial. And and so, yeah, you're, you're living as a responsive feminine being these days, because you did the work, you did something to reawaken it.

Speaker 1: 1:15:40

And you know, with men, with men and vitality and power, and like energy, like I have to teach this stuff in these spaces, with men, like they have to look into each other's eyes and like, try being a little more fierce and break through the fear of being like, oh, I'm going to look like an idiot, like who cares? Get through that and go. I'm here to, I'm here to crush it, like you know one of the things I've. And and then the men go, yeah, six, six. And then he got like we need more legs, we need more power, we need more thrust.

Speaker 1: 1:16:15

What that man's doing is he's actually feeling in his body what it feels like to be like I'm fucking here, I'm here, that's energy, and so that's something we practice as men. We practice that energy in these spaces so that we can take that home and be like baby. I'm sorry, I have completely absolved, like I have. I have robbed you of my energy and I'm back. I'm back and I'm ready for it. And then all of a sudden, I mean I've even chills like cause I I've seen men reclaim power in their hips in a way that just allows them to go like and and you know, then also like the strength of spine and the knowing of self. And then we've got empowered men that are just like I'm here to create and I'm here to be a powerful man in my creation, like that's the stuff that I'm, that's my wheelhouse, and that's what I love.

Speaker 2: 1:16:52

What's kept them from that? Do you think Like what prior to that moment, when you yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:16:59

Mother wounds, father wounds, I mean when you're a kid and your dad's like you can't act like that, don't cry, don't do that. Like all your expression gets neutered Really and um and or mothers are like you're terrible, or like, yeah, we're going to kick you out, like whatever, whatever horrible language our parents have said cuts us off and we just close it down around it and we just aren't expressing and we're just shut off from an embodied, a fear state.

Speaker 2: 1:17:21

You know, afraid of is it as simple as? Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, you go.

Speaker 1: 1:17:30

Well, whatever I was going to say, like you know, women, the fear of evoking unwanted energy keeps women small in their bodies and so that makes sense, and so it's like until a woman is empowered in her power, you want to be a little careful with feminine expression, especially if you're a teenager or in college you know, and so yeah yeah, there's a, there's a way.

Speaker 2: 1:17:45

I love that that you have men do that. That's just like I want to be a fly on the wall for that, oh my gosh, it's really incredible, is it, do you? Think it's important that men do that with other men, or could a man listening to this go home and just like do that in the mirror?

Speaker 1: 1:18:02

Oh no, if he does it in the mirror, he's going to do it at like a three.

Speaker 2: 1:18:05

He needs the. He needs the responsiveness from the men, like a room full of men that are like, more, like, more, like.

Speaker 1: 1:18:11

Come on, like a four, you've got to already now four and a half like men don't even realize how much power they can run through their body and have it still be an acceptable amount of power in the space. You know what I mean Like anyway. So men have to learn it, they have to train it. I mean, listen, if I took a like, let's say we were back I don't know why I'm using this example but like, let's say, we're like training for the military, back in like the 1300s and we got swords.

Speaker 1: 1:18:35

If a man just like learns how to chop a tree, he doesn't actually know how much power it takes to like actually cut down a person. And so like, like the way they used to train it. I've seen these things where it's like they wrap hay really tightly and like you, you, you can become a soldier when you can cut through this bale of hay fully, like in one swipe or something I forget I was reading about it, and the way that they actually taught a swordsman how to really bring the energy needed was they had a method of like this is what you have to be able to cut through, and so that's the thing we don't know until we actually know. You know, we don't know how much energy we can bring until we like practice it and trial it. And it is training for a lot of men, training and reclamation.

Speaker 2: 1:19:14

Why does this feel so good to me?

Speaker 1: 1:19:20

Because you're like I don't know if I want.

Speaker 2: 1:19:22

Well, yeah and I don't know if it's because we've had an absence of that kind of presence, when there's a man that has strong legs and strong spine, and that is like I'm fucking here, it's just like yes.

Speaker 1: 1:19:37

I know.

Speaker 2: 1:19:38

There's a complete lack of it.

Speaker 1: 1:19:40

There's a complete lack of it, and it's because, you know, there's all these different reasons. There's all these different reasons. Like you know, men were castrated by their parents, or men were castrated by culture and society and women and the media narrative, and me too, and whatever, and like, at the end of the day, whatever, fuck it all, let's make better men.

Speaker 2: 1:19:57

Yeah, I guess maybe I'm just responding this way too, cause I'm like men, if you're listening, we want it bring it. I know every woman. I know wants more from their men, and they want men that are vital.

Speaker 1: 1:20:08

You know. The reason is because if a man is unexpressed, he's actually a liability, because you don't know what's true in his body. But if there's a man that's actually expressed and like, oh that's there he is, that's the guy you know, and so it's like I don't know. Jordan Peterson said something about monsters are men. I forget how he says it, but you really want a man who's capable of violence, because then you know what he's capable of. But if you have a man that you don't know where he's at, that's actually really a liability. I forget how he said it man, I should figure this quote out because it's perfect. Men who are expressed are trustable. Men who are not expressed are not.

Speaker 2: 1:20:43

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Okay, I have another topic. Are you, do you have time? Are we good?

Speaker 1: 1:20:51

Yeah, Let me. Let me check my calendar, but I think we're good.

Speaker 2: 1:21:01

Yeah, we are good, absolutely. I got out. I got out some of my books. I don't feel like I can read from this because it's so this is David data's dear lover.

Speaker 1: 1:21:06

It's great.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

Because have you, have you? This is off topic and then I'll come back. Have you heard of the podcast? My dad wrote a porno. That's awesome. It's this guy whose dad wrote like a horrible erotic novel, and it's this guy and then a female friend and another male friend. So the three of them sit around and like read the book together and then make jokes and like laugh about it.

Speaker 1: 1:21:30

I love that so.

Speaker 2: 1:21:31

I pulled this book out and that was like imagining myself reading it to you and being like this is like in a row, you actually want me to read this.

Speaker 1: 1:21:40

Yeah, go for it, yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:21:41

Okay, wait, wait, okay, wait. Now I got to find the spot. No pun intended, because he's talking about G spots here.

Speaker 1: 1:21:48

I love it Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:21:50

Wait, I got it Okay. You've been making love for almost an hour, your lover thrusting in and out his body, pressing against yours while kissing you, biting your neck and pinning you beneath him with his loving strength. Don't, don't stop. You grown as your body relaxes, open, your arms spread out from your sides, your heart opens, your mouth opens. Your bones are long and deep from your belly. Okay, I'm gonna stop there yeah he starts with you've been making love for almost an hour.

Speaker 1: 1:22:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:26

Let's talk about that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:28

Yeah, so we have culturally lost the art of lovemaking.

Speaker 1: 1:22:36

We've lost it and a lot of people, the best they can do is just sort of click in, do the thing, click out, and then it's like, okay, like we have to slow down, Like we have to slow down where we can. But also I'm a dad, we have two young kids, we co sleep and so like we also have there's a spectrum of possibility. Like sometimes there's quite a deep and like long, you know, love thing, and then sometimes it's like the other side of the spectrum. It's just like maintenance sex, like that's all on the table, but this piece that you're really like there is a desire for deep love for a long period of time. Um, really across the board. It's just that a lot of men don't have the vitality and resilience to to create it, because they go all into a level 10 right away. They're at 10 right away, like thrusting fiercely. What about level one for 10 minutes, 20 minutes? What about level two for 10 minutes, 20 minutes? What about something like this and something like that and play and touch, and what about backing off and then coming back in, and then backing off and coming back in, and so, yeah, I mean that's a whole realm.

Speaker 1: 1:23:36

And what I'll say is. You know the data lineage and the people that are around the data space that are that have studied from him. Um, you know Justin in London that have studied from him. You know, justin, in London, there's Eli Buren. There's all these people that have studied around that data space and you know they have a lot of focus on their intimacy and that's great and I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:23:57

I think, you know, for me, my intimacy is like a good 20, 25% and my fatherhood is a good 20, 25% and my future compelling vision that I'm living out as a purpose driven thing is 20, 25%. And then I have 20, 25%. That's just like spiritual work in relationship to God and so, yeah, we want to really have a good chunk of our life invested in what is the level of connection and intimacy that I'm creating. And it's not all in the room, you know, it's not all in the bed, it's like in every other moment. It's peach emojis, it's like you know. It's like you know I tell my wife all the time like I want you, I love you, like I really want you, I want you tonight whatever like things that just entice and enliven.

Speaker 1: 1:24:38

So we just have to get better at creating a full spectrum of sexual possibility and we need to get out of this. I mean any man. If, if anyone's listening and you're in a relationship with a man who's like a 10 minute guy, yeah, he's just got to learn how to move energy through his body. So it's not just cock centric, it's like full embodied passion and pleasure. That makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:24:53

Yeah, and I'm going to give a little context to the passage I was reading. He was talking about like clitoral orgasms, g-spot orgasms and cervical orgasms, and when you started talking about this idea of like you have a man that goes to a 10 right away and he's just like full on thrusting and you're like there's the none of that other stuff is going to happen, because it's like like actually painful probably at that point. But one one thing I wanted to talk about, if you're open to talking about it and I've read and um seen things on Instagram talking about um premature ejaculation or erectile dysfunction, and so even to the point of like being able to have these experiences what are your thoughts on that? What do you see happening?

Speaker 1: 1:25:35

Yeah, so I, I have a good friend who has done some work around, um, you know, premature ejaculation and I asked him about it and basically he confirmed something that I thought was true. So this is all, it's all nervous system stuff. Men have to get really slow and low in their nervous system because premature ejaculation comes from the wiriness, the fear, the like, confusion and like the uh, you know, energy and um, so learning how to slow down. Um, there's also the performance anxiety piece, which is huge for a lot of men, like oh, is she feeling pleasure? Is she okay? Like the like lack of knowing and um, yeah, so all right, let me just separate these out okay.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

Okay, erectile dysfunction, a lack of hardness.

Speaker 1: 1:26:20

There's a lot of factors. The biggest one is psychological, then there's pharmaceutical factors. So if you're on pharmaceutical drugs, there's a lot of them that cause that and it's just, it's the energy in your body, like if you, I, I really believe that if men have ED issues, one of the things to do, back off on powerlifting. If you're powerlifting, back off on pharmaceuticals that have these effects and try to get more in vital energy that's alive. A little bit of cardio, a little bit of movement. Legs, hips, open your bottom hips, like learn how to move energy at the lower body. I do a lot of work with the center column with men, and so it's like opening up the whole spine and lower energetic parts, like the pelvis and the low spine and I I find that we have to get energy down into that part of our body.

Speaker 1: 1:27:06

Um, I went through a period in my first marriage, during the end of the first marriage, where I had an experience of um ED and I was like what is going on? And I, I really thought I just I reached that moment in my life, that's what it is, and um, but interestingly, like when I met my wife and I mentioned it, she's like I'm not worried about it. I was like, oh, and then I never had a problem again and it was like, but there was a psychological component. I didn't feel safe in my first marriage. She was emotionally abusive because of borderline personality disorder and so I, like, my body literally stopped being available to create love with my wife, um, and so that's an important piece. Yeah, yeah, and I get it. It makes complete sense. You know, um, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:27:44

Is there anything that we can do as partners or as women male or female, I guess partners too to support? I mean, like what your wife said was great. Are there other things that we can do to support or what, or what if he's not? What if it's not being talked about? He's like a three minute guy and like there's not a conversation around it. What do you do?

Speaker 1: 1:28:04

Um, you've got, you've got, you've got to. You've got to create the conversation frankly, because he's probably got some shame around it and he's afraid to talk about it. Um, how would I do it If I was a woman? Be fearless and be like listen, I want to have sex with you that lasts longer. I want to have sex with you that lasts, like you know, 30 minutes or 40 minutes, and I totally get that. You, you know, come quickly, and I know that there are men that have worked on this and maybe you kind of do some research.

Speaker 1: 1:28:33

If any women are listening, reach out to me and I'll give you the name of some people I know that have done work around this. I just can't think of them offhand, but, or I don't even know how much they're public and so, basically, like you could reach out privately. One of them's a therapist, and so he doesn't have a public profile, Uh, but I would send people to him because he's really done this work in his own life and he's he's very vocal through it. It's like nice guys have to go hang out with nice guys that are recovered to to get through it. Um, yeah, Anyone with ED or or, um, yeah, Premature, uh stuff. Just talk to men that have been through it and recovered it.

Speaker 2: 1:29:09

Yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean, it's an important, it's a super important part of a relationship and I just I think that it's not. If it's uncomfortable to talk about, then what happens, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:29:20

Yeah, and I mean in terms of ED, erectile dysfunction. I'm not against like try, try you know, cialis or Viagra. Like try it and see if it works for you, and like whatever sometimes. You know, my dad is 76 and has an incredible sex life and he definitely needs help. He does Him and I have talked about it Like and so so what? Let it be?

Speaker 2: 1:29:39

It's pretty great and you can still have incredible sex at 76 years old.

Speaker 1: 1:29:43

So I'm not. I'm not like above or like whatever. My wife is more holistic in her way of looking at life and I am too across the board. But this one little piece, yeah, it helps.

Speaker 2: 1:29:53

When you get there. If it helps, it helps. Okay, maybe this is the last question, so maybe not.

Speaker 1: 1:30:03

We'll see what is the purpose of relationships To find home and to walk each other home and to be home. That's it. That's really it. I like that. I wasn't expecting that.

Speaker 1: 1:30:21

Yeah, I mean, I really believe that once I clicked in with my wife, I have no needs like. I have no needs that are external to my life, like my life at home is fulfilled and full and beautiful, and then I get to just go and my life in the world is, I'm on fire on my mission, crushing it, and that's it and I don't need anything else.

Speaker 2: 1:30:37

Like really, it sounds to me like that. You know, I hear a lot of this like men want to be free and and that can mean I want to be free to fuck all the people I want to fuck. You know, it can mean that right. It can mean a lot of Prince would say yeah it can mean a lot of things, but what I heard you just say is like I'm, I'm free, Like I'm. I am free yeah, right. Yeah, and this relationship has created that yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:31:05

I heard somebody I was studying, I heard a teacher once say they needed to create a lot of space away from their life and away from their relationship to feel like freedom. And I just thought the hell are you doing in your relationship? That was my response because I was like my relationship has me free. I'm free as a man. I don't have any needs, wants, desires outside of it. You know, I'm fully fulfilled in my relationship in terms of emotional health, love, like she loves me, she's loyal, we create beautiful love together and our intimacy is on fire. I mean, I was talking to a guy a couple of years ago that was like I have these like women that are in like different countries and I'm like, yeah, that's really inconvenient. I have more sex and better sex than you do, even with all your women.

Speaker 1: 1:31:44

And he was like and I was like I actually pity the fact that you have to fly around the world to have your needs met, because I get them all the time, no flight necessary. And I'm like that's not freedom, bro You're. You're stuck in an addiction to women and chasing women. It's boring and it's also really immature. So anyway, whatever, I don't want to get into that too much, but it's just. I see it in men all the time. They're like I want freedom and it's like well, what does that?

Speaker 2: 1:32:13

say about the life you've punctuated, that like this relationship with your wife has given you, that I think that's a reality, that I don't know, those men, other men, whomever aren't aren't like seeing or aware of that possibility. As much as it can be like this, this thing can create the freedom you're looking for. This kind of relationship can create the freedom you're looking for. Yeah, a thousand percent.

Speaker 1: 1:32:41

Yeah, it's crazy, and there is a part of me that, like sure, I'd like to get out in nature like once in a while, and but that's more about my life, it's not really the.

Speaker 1: 1:32:45

I'm not trying to get away from my wife Like I'm trying to. Like I have a really intense. I'm working like 65 plus hours a week. I have an intense job, I'm holding people constantly, and so there's a part of me that's like I need to go lay in a Creek next to a waterfall for like a couple of days. And that's not me trying to escape for anything, that's just about the reclamation of nourishment in my body. But I certainly don't need it that often. Once a year is good enough, you know for a short period of time.

Speaker 2: 1:33:09

Yeah, yeah, Okay, Max is there anything else that's surfacing for you on your heart or mind, that you're seeing in your work or that you want to share today.

Speaker 1: 1:33:19

You know, as I think about where we are right now and when. When is this podcast going to come out? Is this coming out within the next couple of weeks?

Speaker 2: 1:33:27

Uh, august, the first Thursday in August, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:33:30

Yeah. So we're in a really wild time. It's real chaotic, there's a lot of energy and I'm just going to presence that for anybody that's listening to this like we're in an election year, we're heading toward an election. Stay out of the chaos, stay out of the drama, stay out of the emotions. Just, you already know what you're going to do in the election. So just stay out of the rest of it, because it's all drama that's meant to make you feel things that are not good. And what I would say is, if you're listening to this, get abundantly clear right now. What is the life I'm here to create and what do I need to do that? And that is like that singular, most important thing you know. Get out of, and this is a perfect moment to realize how much the world gets into your consciousness because it's trying to. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:34:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:34:09

I have such a tight ship. I just I unfollowed like 2000 accounts on my Instagram. I'm now down to like. I follow like 200 things on Instagram and they're all like friends. Like friends or like weird stuff, like uh, banjo players and Appalachian and like Nordic tattoo guys. It's like literally what.

Speaker 2: 1:34:26

I need a Nordic tattoo person actually.

Speaker 1: 1:34:29

Yeah, there's a couple of really good ones I'll send. I'll hook you up with my yeah, Um, but anyway, like, get out of the chaos and get really clear with your life. I'm just seeing like the biggest crisis of mankind is a lack of knowing who you are as a human. Like, if you don't know who you are, figure that out, learn, learn who you are and you know. At the end of the day, I guess the thing I'll drop here is I'm about to launch a bunch of incredible communities, like an online community for men and women. An online community for men. There will be another one for women that my director, Kendall, who's an incredible embodiment facilitator she'll be running and I'll drop into for Q and A's occasionally.

Speaker 1: 1:35:02

And then I um, I'm right now I'm scheduling two to three years of men's immersions and I'm going to be doing something really interesting with my immersions. Um, they're going to cycle through a couple of different deep pieces and one of the pieces is just clarity and purpose. One of the pieces is, you know, energetics and, like, you know, sexual energy and power and how to cultivate power. Uh, one of the pieces is just attunement to the earth, vibration, which also is related to the.

Speaker 2: 1:35:26

Thing.

Speaker 1: 1:35:27

Yeah, so like, how do we? How do we attune it's? That's about nervous system, but it's also about how do I get out of the chaos of the human construction and get into the truth of our primal truth? We, and get into the truth of our primal truth. We are animals and we are disconnected from that. And then the last piece is the God piece, and that's going to be something else entirely, like no one's doing what I'm about to do, and it's going to be like I have chills thinking about what I'm in development of, and so I'll just say, if you're hearing anything that I say and you're like yes to it, jump in my communities, get involved. I I'm building amazing things and there's a lot of people around me that are supporting it. I've got incredible teams that are starting to come in from the woods and it's like all right, let's go, it's time to actually, and so it's it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1: 1:36:09

So people can find me. You know it'll be on your notes, but a shift.

Speaker 2: 1:36:12

I'll share it all in my notes. Yep, my name is.

Speaker 1: 1:36:14

Max Trombley, it's easy to find. I'm around, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:36:18

Max, thank you for your work. Thank you, thank you for your work and the way that you're leading the way. I mean the things that you've shared today and the things that, wherever that came from for you, that you are listening to that and following that and walking that out, is just like a gift to humanity.

Speaker 1: 1:36:36

Thank you, thank you for doing that. It's beautiful. I don't feel like I have a choice Once this stuff started to come into my field. I was like that's what I'm here to do.

Speaker 2: 1:36:45

Oh, that's a wild feeling to feel like I can't not do this thing. I like I can't not do it. Yeah, that's really great. Thank you for your time today to keep going, nope.

Speaker 1: 1:36:55

I was going to say. Somebody asked me recently where this all came from and I just I have to just say from God. You know, and I'm not saying like I'm a prophet or I'm like beholden by God, but I just feel like when I relaxed and surrendered and asked for help, this is what arrived over the past. You know, six years is. I'm just like holy shit, this is real.

Speaker 2: 1:37:11

How did it come to you?

Speaker 1: 1:37:13

I got sensitive, I got attuned to nature. I asked my mom for help. She passed away when I was 16 and she came back a couple of years ago in a really interesting way and um, and then I just said I gave up on my resistance to God and I said, fuck it, I'm sorry, let's go and thank you, you know, and that's really, that's really real. So yeah, and it's, I don't go to church. It's not a church thing, it's just like I've got a picture of a guy right there. I've got a couple things on my wall up here and it just reminds me to stay humble and thankful for what I have and from that place I create. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:37:52

yep, that's beautiful, I love it yeah, all right there we go. Thank you, Max.

Speaker 1: 1:37:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:38:01

Being your most whole self so that you can lead your most full life. You are definitely worthy and deserving of that. All of the resources that we shared today are going to be linked in the show notes. You can check those out there, along with ways that you can connect with us If you've got questions or feedback or people that you think we should reach out to to highlight their story on the whole Spain podcast. In the meantime, please be sure to hit that follow button so you don't miss a beat. Share this episode or any others with those that you think could benefit from this conversation, and you can do the podcast a huge favor by leaving a five star review In the meantime. I hope that you have a fantastic banging day. Thank you, bye.