The Magic of Choosing Your "And" with Entrepreneur and Mom, Sara Schultz

Speaker 1: 0:00

Sarah Schultz Hi Hi, hi, welcome to the whole shebang.

Speaker 2: 0:04

First of all, we've been talking about this. I love the title.

Speaker 1: 0:08

Do you? Yes, okay, you're a creative, so can I get a little feedback? You like the title?

Speaker 2: 0:13

Okay, I think it is profound without being pretentious. It's fun. I like it, thank you.

Speaker 1: 0:18

I'm here for this Great. I'm so happy to have you here.

Speaker 2: 0:22

I'm very happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:24

I have stories about my experience with you, but before I jump into that, can you introduce yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:32

Yeah, I kind of want you to now no, no, we're going to save that?

Speaker 2: 0:36

Oh my gosh. Yeah, those probably should be some good gems there. Hi, I'm Sarah. I do a lot of different things. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I have a business where we focus on helping other business owners bring their dreams to life, and we do that through strategic brand positioning, brand identity design, web design and development and photo and video production and direction. And I actually most closely identify as that woman, as that, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, which has been really interesting as I've evolved into also being a mom, um, and that's a big part of who I am. So we also. Our creative agency is called Free Afternoon, you know it well.

Speaker 1: 1:36

I do.

Speaker 2: 1:37

We got a repeat client over here dreamy client over here.

Speaker 2: 1:40

And then we also nurture on my personal brand side, hey Sarah Schultz women in business who have more time than money. So what we're working on currently is building out even more digital products and free resources that allow for those who are just like you, who are just like me we've gone through the ringer, getting something up off the ground. We're still in the throes of business development ourselves, in each of our own arenas, and so, on the HeySaraSchultzcom side, we offer resources that help other women like you and me do just that, so that they can build a sustainable brand that they're proud of, that they love and that builds that brand obsession that ultimately helps make money. That's the point. That's what we're doing, right.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Yeah, somehow I love it. Okay, here's the gem At least this is a gem to me of my experience with you and I think I I know I shared this with you at the end of the branding process that we went through together, which was not we're about to do some stuff with the whole shebang, but my website, my blog and I don't have the words for the experience totally, but I'm going to try that. That branding was such a personal brand for me and it was a very much of a transformative part time in my life, and so when I put my mood board together and then we're working on the brand and the colors and the clothes and the whole process, I was like Jen, who are you becoming Like? The question was what's becoming of this? It was brand, but it was also so closely tied to me, which I think correct me if I'm wrong a lot of brands are an expression, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Okay, especially personal brands, where literally you are the brand and service-based business providers. It's a very intimate experience.

Speaker 1: 3:36

Right, and so then we did the photography session and I got the photos back and just like cried like a baby. I was like and just like cried like a baby.

Speaker 1: 3:49

I was like, oh my gosh, you helped me uncover, like uncover stuff. So it was such a wild branding process because it was a. I had never been through that process that way. Right, yeah. And then to see that, and then now it's top secret what project two is, but it'll be launching in a couple months, here and um, and we just got the branding, like all of the assets, back yesterday and I was like, oh my gosh, we just birthed a baby and now this thing is alive and we get to do things with it, which is just wild and I don't know. I would think really cool for you to be a part of helping people birth babies.

Speaker 2: 4:21

I love it Without being a doula, literally. What's so funny? I'm getting goosebumps right now because when I was like, from three years old to probably most of the way through elementary school, this is a fun. This is a good little full circle here. I wanted to be a ballerina. No, what did I want to be? Oh, I wanted to be a baby doctor during the day and a ballerina at night. Not a ballerina, but apparently I birthed babies. Still, that was always something that was really fascinating to me.

Speaker 2: 4:52

So I kind of like this analogy a ton, because that is exactly what it is. It is a very intimate process for a majority of our clients, because a majority of our clients are still small enough where this truly is their brainchild. This is the thing that their soul has been begging them to create and do, and to be able to be a part of making somebody else's dreams come true. That is literally what my job is every day. It is the coolest fucking thing. Oh, do we say potty words here? Yeah, that is literally what my job is every day. It is the coolest fucking thing. Oh, do we say potty words here? Yeah, okay, it's just the coolest thing to be able to do that. So this is the highest compliment I can receive knowing that you felt that we should have done an over and under on crying today, because that's exactly the point, and it is, and can be a very intimate experience.

Speaker 2: 5:53

My client isn't Target, where it's something that's so much bigger than any one individual. There's a lot more intertwining between our founders and CEOs and the brand that they're trying to build. And so creating boundaries between those two beings while also being strategic about how we bring that into the world is a really beautiful dance that I'm so grateful to get to do. I love my job.

Speaker 1: 6:21

And you've created this world for yourself. I just want to like pause and note that for the entrepreneurs out there, or whomever that is like, I'm doing something I don't want to do Like. You took some leaps. Yes, you have made the way.

Speaker 2: 6:35

I made up a job and built a business from nothing, to what I wanted it to be, to a T, that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 6:47

And at any point it didn't feel right. I turned and pivoted until it started to feel like I was getting more. Yes, yes, this is it. Yes, this feels good. Yes, I want more of this. And we just started trimming the fat of the nose of this. And we just started trimming the fat of the nose. And I say that not to. I want to celebrate that. Of course, I'm very proud of that, but I say that really because I am not special. Everyone can do this. I just have refused to live in a world where I am spending 80% of my life in something I'm unhappy with doing, something that makes me feel unhappy or unfulfilled. Even neutral isn't good enough for me. I want happiness and fun and play and joy, and I will sprint towards that every second I can, I can.

Speaker 1: 7:51

It's so encouraging to hear because that's the journey that I'm on and I think a lot of people are on right now. I hope so. I hope so, but just that little. For me it's been like little steps along the way every day of looking for I just posted about the. For me it's been like little steps along the way, every day of looking for I just posted about the hell. Yes, like checking in and being like what feels like. Yes, yes, and even if you don't understand why it feels like a yes Doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 8:18

And so that's that yes.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Sprint towards that. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 8:25

How many times, how many ways?

Speaker 2: 8:27

Yes, yes, I'm not even trying at this point, but that's exactly it. That is exactly it. I truly believe if more people did professionally, because we spend for those of us that are working, that's a majority of our day, that's truly a majority of our conscious life, and I don't believe in this. Like I'm Sarah at work and then I'm Sarah at home, like there's not an on and off, it's just I'm Sarah conscious and awake and I'm Sarah subconscious and asleep, like that's all that's happening in my world. Everything else during the conscious hours are like a blurry line of jumbled life for 15, whatever, however many hours a day. And I truly believe if people could find joy and happiness and how they spend that chunk of time, it's not going to be every minute. Let's not be dumb. I'm not naive, but if we can fill those conscious hours with more peace and joy and play, I truly, to my core, believe the world would be a much more pleasant place.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Yes, you're speaking my language.

Speaker 2: 9:37

Right.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Yeah, for all of the reasons, yes.

Speaker 2: 9:41

That's not even that profound of a thought Like, oh yeah, of course, if more people were happy, the world would be happier, duh, but I don't think people feel like trapped.

Speaker 1: 9:50

I don't know if they feel trapped or stuck or what it is and then it's hard to take those first steps to get unstuck. It's scary as hell.

Speaker 2: 9:56

Yeah, it's not easy to do what you've done and I will a hundred percent honor. I had privilege in my husband held our insurance, so it was okay that I wasn't insured, because my husband had health insurance for me and I have family support, that I knew if, oh shit, this isn't working and we got in a precarious situation, I knew that there would be other means and safety net and I also knew that I was going to figure it out. I never doubted that one second.

Speaker 1: 10:36

Where did that belief come from?

Speaker 2: 10:39

I think I came this way. Honestly, I wish I had a better answer. I don't remember, even when it does not make sense, I do not remember feeling incapable. I think there were plenty of times where I had low self-confidence or I was concerned about how I looked or what I was doing. Right, that's very normal and I still had this drive and deep belief in myself and I think my curiosity as to what that was has really helped support me in my business journey.

Speaker 1: 11:23

It's great that you just had the self-awareness of that, like, oh, what is this confidence and where is this?

Speaker 2: 11:27

leading me. I think people that have known me from my earliest stages would probably agree with that. And then, of course, that gets nurtured. I'm not going to pretend right. My parents were very encouraging and supportive of literally anything I wanted to go and do and explore, and so that, of course, has helped solidify that attitude in me. But I grew up on a stage. I was a ballerina.

Speaker 2: 11:52

I mean, I literally was not a ballerina but I danced, I was a performer and I was in front of people and I felt amazing doing that, even when I didn't feel good about other parts of me. It was like I could turn something on and I learned at a young age that I liked that thing, that I could turn on, and other people liked it too. And now, in my late 30s, I'm learning that I can harness that in a really powerful way. I'm learning that I can harness that in a really powerful way. I'm like you're just getting goosebumps talking about it that it's not just something that is there that I can't use as a tool. That's a tool that I can use for good. I could probably also use it for bad, but I don't.

Speaker 1: 12:40

It's good witch, bad witch kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Yes, totally.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Oh my gosh, there are. There's so like there are so many things that you said there that we could dive into. Um, I'm gonna, while we're talking about just business stuff and entrepreneurial building things one of the things I've been close enough to your business, but not in it and not behind the scenes from my vantage point have really, um, admired how you seem to be operating your business. So we're building a brand together and I get an email. Like the day a few days before Christmas. I send an email and it's like hey, sarah's going to be out enjoying time with her family until I don't know.

Speaker 1: 13:25

It was a couple weeks, a week and a half, january 8th, yeah, and I was like cool, okay, great, I'm not mad about it, I'm not like I want my stuff sooner. You've set boundaries, you've hired great people, your communication is great and I think, from my vantage point, you're doing things differently, yeah, and it seems to be working. I think so too. So for people that are listening, that are building a business maybe they're starting out, or they've already built one, or they're in one and they have influence or in any way, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:03

What are you doing different? That's working well.

Speaker 2: 14:06

Hmm, I wish that, um, five, six, seven years ago, sarah would have realized that, although it seems like it, there is not a right way to do this. There's a right way for you to do this. And when I started full-time running my business, I was terrified terrified that I was doing it wrong. I saw this model of a business plan and traditional structured work days and a very corporate rigidity as normal. That was all I knew. I came from a corporate background and I thought that's what was right. And when I finally realized I am just, that was not a natural fit for me in any way, shape or form, not only for who I am as a person, but what I wanted to build. The reason I wanted to build a business was one. I absolutely love my work, but I wanted it to fit into this bigger picture of my life, and so having the awareness around what do I want in my life helped me create structure in the business that allows for the life to happen.

Speaker 2: 15:42

And I just don't subscribe to the narrative of grinding until you die, sleep when you die. I want to take a fucking nap. There is hard work, absolutely. Is this easy? Nope, and it can be joyful and it can feel rewarding and it doesn't have to be this hustle and grind, and so some of the things I think that I've been able to deploy that feel different and I love that that's tangible for you, because we seem to call in clients that are very accepting of our boundaries and our work plan and we're very upfront about that.

Speaker 2: 16:26

When I say end of day, I mean 11.59 pm, I don't mean 5 pm. Why? Because I might want to go pick up my kid early and go to the park and I can do that and do my job successfully. I don't want to sit at the park with my laptop. I want space to be with my family or with myself, and I want space to be in my business and with my team and my clients and I want to define all of that fine, all of that. So, really focusing on what I wanted in life flexibility, freedom, shaped everything about the business, who I hired, the support I needed to make it happen, what services we offer, because all of those things needed to be in full alignment with the life that I wanted to live and the life that I wanted to build, and it's working.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Yes, it is, it's working, and that's just.

Speaker 2: 17:23

I just wish that, especially women in business, who already statistically have a harder hill to climb. I just I want all of us to realize we can write the rules how we want to write the rules, and it's totally cool if it looks different than somebody else's model. There is no one size fits all.

Speaker 1: 17:42

Yeah, I was just talking to a room full of people the other day, but then there was a couple of moms that came up.

Speaker 1: 17:47

We were talking about limited thinking and unlimited thinking and this idea that unlimited thinking is where you understand that two ideals can coexist and limited thinking is this or that type of thinking. And so it's like, well, I can either be a really engaged mom or I can have a successful business, which is limited thinking, and it seems so basic to say no, I can have both. So, but I have to take the lid off my creative thinking to think about what could this look like? Does it mean I'm wrapping up a project at 9.30 at night in my robe, because I can, and I can be at my kids' play, and I can. But it requires the ability to think differently.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Yes, yes, a thousand percent. Well, and it's just been very ingrained in us through a capitalistic society where hustle and hard work and a 40-hour work week starting at eight and ending at five in this lunch break at noon, that was a model that we thought equaled success and it's the most common model that we see. I grew up with parents that left in the morning and came back in the evening and it was like highly structured, like that and it just that doesn't have to be how it works. The pandemic showed us a lot of that, which I think is a silver lining of a terrible situation that I swear we're all having repressed feelings about and in like 20 years we're going to have like collective acne all of a sudden, as we're like processing the trauma.

Speaker 2: 19:22

That was a global, world-ending pandemic. It seemed that was a shocking experience, but it taught us, I think, a lot about how businesses can operate successfully in a very different model, and I think that's a fantastic learning and I hope, as entrepreneurs who have nimble teams there's eight of us on my team we can be as flexible as we want to be. This isn't like a 5,000 person brand. I also don't want it to be. Why don't I want it to be that? Because that doesn't fit in with what I'm trying to build for my life.

Speaker 1: 19:56

Okay, so you've got a team of eight and there's a lot of flexibility and it doesn't have to be rigid and you have standards. You're deploying assets that are. You have a standard that's high. I see the product, I know that to be true. How do you hold them to the standard?

Speaker 2: 20:17

How do?

Speaker 1: 20:17

you set the expectations? What are some practical kind of things for people that are running a business or a team right now that you could help show where the boundaries might be?

Speaker 2: 20:28

thing that I accepted right away, which has helped with this success, was good people are worth every penny. I have never said no to somebody asking for more money on my team Mm-hmm, I also need to be realistic about expenses but what I found was my willingness to invest in the highly talented humans that I have working with me meant I could completely remove myself from parts of the business that let me focus on growth activities. Being here with you today Somebody's going to listen to this and they're going to say, oh, I want to go check out for your afternoon, or oh, I want to go check out, hey, sarah Schultz. That will likely turn into some sort of amazing client, new client coming into our world, which is exciting for me because I love what beyond having an incredible end product for our clients, I can trust them. I don't have to follow up. I'm not managing and micromanaging their tasks. Here's the point.

Speaker 1: 22:00

Yeah, it's almost like I don't have to set a bunch of rules and boundaries. It seems so basic. But when you hire the right people you say here's the end product we're looking for. Correct me if I'm wrong. Here's the deadline yeah, go, get it Go.

Speaker 2: 22:16

And they do and they nail it every time. The team is fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And again, you touched on self-awareness. It's something I talk about. A lot is I knew what I was good at and I knew what I wasn't good at, and the shit I wasn't good at was the stuff that wasn't getting done. So before I brought on Tiff who manages all of our operations and at that time, did communication too with our clients and managed my calendar and my emails.

Speaker 2: 22:48

That's the reason we have good communication and it's not because I'm not. I am a good, strong communicator. But the process behind those check-ins, those touch points, my brain doesn't do that. My brain wants to color, my brain wants to create. So, instead of fighting that, this is very much like a StrengthsFinder model Soar with your strengths let's not try to get better at the shit you're bad at. Fuck that. Move on, move on. Get great at the stuff you're good at and then find a solution that's not you probably to do the stuff that you're not good at and that was ultimately how I started hiring was.

Speaker 2: 23:30

I've got gaps? Oh, I know them. They're bright and they're bold, and not only was that probably painful from a client standpoint, but that was very painful for me and that pain set the red flag of this isn't sustainable and I'm building something that's sustainable. I'm not just hopping on this trend train. I'm going to be here for a while, so I knew I needed to solve for these foundational issues as soon as it was feasible, and it wasn't day one. I didn't have cash flow for that to happen day one, but I would say confidently, nine out of my 10 hires I hired before that cash was ready, and the second they came, that cash did too.

Speaker 1: 24:09

It's so wild, oh, it's so wild.

Speaker 2: 24:12

I don't look before I leap. I'm like let's leap and we're going to figure it out as we go. There will be a branch, An umbrella will show up and I'll hold on to it. A parachute will appear Like making and trusting yourself to take big leaps has never, ever resulted in a crash burn. I've landed the plane every time. Sometimes it's been bumpy, and that's okay and that's going to happen, but then guess what I land better the next time so I think just some awareness around like, hey, what are you, what are you great at and what are you not great at?

Speaker 2: 24:44

and yeah, go with it. Go with it and the people that are worth it pay them well and realize that you know it's going to make everything else easier. Money isn't our only currency, oh my gosh. So I think people have a lot of money, fear, and then they're like oh. I can't do that. You could probably find an incredible VA for like 15 bucks an hour to start taking some shit off your plate.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Yes, and I think it's, it's money fear, and I think what I see a lot is the control thing, like I'm a control freak and nobody can do it like I can and I'm like, yeah, but you're not. You're also not good at everything. You are shitty at these parts, so just you've spent the last five, 10 years not doing this stuff.

Speaker 2: 25:27

You might as well just hire it out where you can, yes, yeah, and what a like cute concept to think that we're the best at all of the things that we do.

Speaker 1: 25:34

It's so cute, it's adorbs.

Speaker 2: 25:36

Nope, that's not true.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Okay, I'm going to go back to and I'm surprised you maybe with a little bit of a topic of conversation that I think this is going to be interesting.

Speaker 2: 25:47

We'll see where it goes, okay.

Speaker 1: 25:49

You talked about the hustle culture and I feel like I am walking this interesting line or kind of the pendulum is swinging in my life and had gone from very much in large part out of need, partially out of pride Like, oh, I can do this, like I'm going to be the boss, I'm going to be the girl boss, I'm going to launch the business, I'm going to be a rocking mom, I'm going to have a bod. You know, I'm going to launch the business, I'm going to be a rocking mom, I'm going to have a bod, you know, I'm going to do all the things. And then being like I'm dying and I don't want to do all of the things anymore, and but struggling with that Cause, I do want to do all of the things and it's all. It's a lot of what you've talked about. So this was yesterday. I came across on my I don't know where it was, whatever it was on social media and then I went down a rabbit hole of Googling the soft girl era, which is apparently everything.

Speaker 1: 26:46

Tell me more. So there was some girl on Tik TOK that had said I don't want to be a bitch boss Like I don't want to be a girl boss, and she some people are kind of are looking at her going. She's taking it to the extreme because she basically said I'm just going to remove myself from work culture and I'm, I would want to be like a stay at home wife and a mom and blah, blah, blah. Great, which is also great to me. I'm like, I'm a feminist, I'm all for equal opportunity and choice and if that is your choice, have at it and live it up.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Go be joyful.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Right, go for it. So now there's a lot of criticism around like, oh, is this next generation of women just going to bow out?

Speaker 2: 27:31

Got it. I see the backlash.

Speaker 1: 27:32

Yeah, and what does that mean? These women are going to miss out on knowing what it feels like to be empowered. And why wouldn't they want to create a business like you have? Because they can be an entrepreneur and they can be da, da, da, right. So I don't know what are your thoughts. I'm just like where are we?

Speaker 2: 27:50

headed.

Speaker 1: 27:50

And what would you say to young women right now? That are looking like I don't want to. They see the burnout. They see women that are in their forties freezing their eggs.

Speaker 2: 28:01

Like.

Speaker 1: 28:02

I have sacrificed everything for a career, and so now they're like swinging the other way.

Speaker 2: 28:11

Oh, I think the word that you've used, that I want us to really hold on to, is want. What do you want to do? I want to grow a business and a family at the same time, and that feels exciting to me and that feels it's hard as hell. But I've wanted to solve that riddle and make it work for me. Is that right for everyone? Not. If you don't want it. If you don't want that, you should not do that. If you want to go stay at home with your babies or just stay at home, find a way to make that happen and find purpose where your soul is excited and have intention and go and do whatever that is. I think I'm with you, or I'm maybe I'll speak for myself.

Speaker 2: 29:07

I fiercely am like hey, it really fucking annoys me that there's a bunch of white men in charge at every place. We look, every corner, we look. They hold the money, they hold the seats in the C-suite, they hold the highest powers of office in the entire world. That pisses me off because I don't think it's working. I might feel different if it was working, but it's not working. We don't have equity in representation well beyond just genders. That is problematic for very many reasons, and you don't have to believe in any feminist belief to see that. That's just not representative of who we are as humanity. We don't even need to talk about the United States as humanity Right, and our systems and our structures have all been built to support that. It's a patriarchal society. We can't argue with that. That's just truth. And when you think about who's in the meetings making the decisions, it is, of course we won't even fault them for this. Of course they're building something that makes sense for them. Why wouldn't you? You don't have any other opinions in the room to help you decide differently. That is a problem, and that's a problem we have to fix. And so, yeah, I personally do feel like I want to go find my way to that power. I want to go find my way to that money, because today that's what works for influence. That's me, though that doesn't mean every woman needs to go and do that, and the pendulum swing is exactly what we're having this backlash, this whiplash moment of like. Well, we see that this not working, so let's do the opposite. I am not saying that women should sit at every single spot at the C-suite. I'm not saying only women should rule the world. I'm saying, hey, let's find a way to bring equanimity to this situation and the reality that, yes, when women step out of the workforce to birth and raise humans and men stay, of course, there's this plateau happening and a trajectory happening differently over here, which is a part of the reason where we're at and thinking of business differently in general, will help that scenario.

Speaker 2: 31:33

A pause in the workforce to have a soft girl moment is and should not be detrimental to the rest of your capabilities as a woman in the workforce. Cool, you took 10 years off. I can't think of any better qualifiers than dealing with small tyrants Like a woman who has had to do anything over a nap time is literally getting more done than anyone else in a full day. It's just out of sheer pressure cooker necessity you have to solve for shit in a really small amount of time. You're juggling a lot of balls Like we just as a society.

Speaker 2: 32:13

It's not a problem that women are out of the workforce. The problem is we're not valuing what they're spending their time doing. That's the problem and that's not valued because they're not at those decision-making tables to say how important this work is and, frankly, dad isn't there to see it because he's at the office. So it's this really sticky mess that has turned into, I think, a convoluted conversation around how to solve it. And it's not just kill the men and make the women in charge, right, there are days where I do want to do that, but I'm raising little boys.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Yeah, and that is complicated to me because I am this fierce like what the fuck is happening? Yeah, why are we still having these stupid conversations? Why is this clown getting to prance around and rule the fucking world? None of this stuff is making sense to me. But the conversation isn't hey, bud, you should do nothing with your life to save a spot for a woman. That's not the answer. The answer is you go, do what you want to do and how you can soar, and I also want you to work hard and I want you to cry and I want you to have emotions and I want you to celebrate others' wins. It is just about whole human and not about boys and girls, and men and women. And so that was a rant soapbox moment, but let's bring it back to soft girl Rand soapbox moment. Let's bring it back to soft girl.

Speaker 2: 33:39

What I love about soft girl, soft girl era. Okay, what I love about this is to me, it's prioritizing that whole humanness. I can't operate like this 24 seven.

Speaker 1: 34:03

I need to go take a nap.

Speaker 2: 34:05

I need to unplug, I need to rest and, for whatever reason, we have limiting beliefs that say it's one or the other. The girl boss era is getting shit because it was misallocated as just hustle, hustle, hustle, only hustle. It's like, no, let's go be a girl boss and be a soft girl. It's like we've forgotten to have openness to the dynamic experience of humans. That's what's wild to me Right?

Speaker 1: 34:25

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 34:26

So this, like we're going to keep ping, ponging this damn pendulum back and forth until we realize, oh, I can be a boss and a soft girl and a mom if that's what I want to do.

Speaker 1: 34:38

I feel like that's been the challenge of this path that I've gone down, and even how to communicate it. And here's the podcast. It's like how do I communicate? Because I feel like when I talk about the soft girl era things, there's always a yeah, but we can't forget about structure and rules. And I'm like I know, yes, and Preaching that so hard and living that so hard in our society for centuries, that for me, to put a light on the softer side of things is just to me. It's like, okay, let's also focus on it is an and. But I don't want to have to say every time I know this and this, I know, but whatever, I'm going to because it is important, and I and you are an example of that. There are days when I am hustling. There are definitely times I need structure and and Right, and.

Speaker 2: 35:36

Yes and and right and yes it's what makes this hard is, I think, the easiest way for humans to comprehend is this or that black or white? Yes or no, and that is where limiting beliefs come from. And that's just not true. There is a wild spectrum of gray that gets completely eliminated and we don't get to explore the benefit of when we say I have to be a girl boss or a soft girl, and that's just not true. That's just not true.

Speaker 1: 36:14

Go do both. Turns out we can be everything Literally.

Speaker 2: 36:18

How many design reviews did you see with a camera on versus how many design reviews did you see with a camera off?

Speaker 1: 36:24

I was soft girl momenting those camera off design reviews.

Speaker 2: 36:27

I was in some sort of robe with my hair on top of my head and maybe a face mask on, and I had a creative burst and I'm like I can do both.

Speaker 1: 36:34

Yes, I love that If that's what I want to. I want to do Left. Turn you ready, I'm ready for it.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Creative burst. You just said I had a creative burst. I would love because this is to me part of the softer side that I think intuition and creativity gets blocked out in the name of whatever structure hitting a goal, hitting a metric, focusing on widgets, whatever it is that we have tapped this part of our lives out, in our work, but also in our life, and so when we don't even know what a creative burst feels like and in my opinion, everybody has that in them their creative burst might be designing new software, it might be putting together a spreadsheet, it could, it can look, it can look more logical, but it's still creation. Yes, okay. And so I want to hear from you out of curiosity, and then maybe, if you think of a lens of like, if you were talking to somebody who didn't view themselves as creative, you know, but, um, a, what is your creative process like? And let's start there, we'll start there.

Speaker 2: 37:46

I love this question and I think it ties back to this, like what we were just talking about, because my creative process is highly intuitively based and that is something that is extremely hard to articulate to somebody who doesn't understand that that is real. So my whole life I knew I was always creative. When you think of basic creativity, or typical creativity, let's say so, my creativity always looked like literally coloring, crafting, scrapbooking, stamps, creating from nothing to something. I've loved that and appreciated that. That has been nurtured in me my entire life. And logic and numbers and systems were always quite foreign to me and I naturally didn't, you know, feel called to give a shit about any of those things, and you know so.

Speaker 2: 38:52

I knew that I was going to be in a creative space. I took creative classes in high school. I went to art school before I went to design school, and the structure of formal university teaching needs to be just that structured. And a challenge I always felt was being asked show your creative process, show me your sketchbook, what sketchbook? Show me your process before you got to the end. And I had the hardest time doing that and it hindered. I wasn't accepted into my program at school. I didn't get the creative job in my corporate career when I went out for that and it hindered I wasn't accepted into my program at school. I didn't get the creative job in my corporate career when I went out for that, and both of those times the feedback was around. How did you get to the end result? We want to know the how. I wonder why the how was so important.

Speaker 2: 39:48

That is something I have fought literally my entire life and that's not how. I wonder why the how was so important. That is something I have fought literally my entire life and that's not uncommon. I bet there are a lot of creatives out there who do not resonate with this process for me and that was challenging for me because I do so much in my head ideation and once I'm at a point I typically have a physical reaction goosebumps. I'll get goosebumps.

Speaker 2: 40:16

And then I'm like when I'm onto something and I just thought I was getting goosebumps for years and then I was like, oh, she's trying to say something. She wants you to listen to this, okay. And when I leaned into accepting that intuitively, something was happening, I was onto something when I took action in alignment with that magic. Magic I love this so much. It does feel like magic because I can't explain it. I don't know what it is and I I'm not equipped to teach it. I think people are, I think there are people that can help others tap into their own internal voice and tap into intuition and trusting themselves. There are tactical ways to nurture that. I don't know what they are, but they're out there. So this is fascinating to you, I think. Definitely look into that. But I very much so lean into what feels like this very highly feminine, magical, energetic creativity that feels very organic to me.

Speaker 2: 41:24

Your project is a great example of that. Yeah, because I go in with curiosity, asking more questions, and I just start playing. That's what it is. I play, that's my process, and when I'm getting to something that's closer, closer, closer, the energy starts flowing. I get excited, I get goosebumps. It's like the fifth time I've shown you. Starts flowing, I get excited, I get goosebumps. It's like the fifth time I've shown you my goosebumps, like I'm onto something right now.

Speaker 1: 41:54

Oh cool.

Speaker 2: 41:56

And all of a sudden I'll look back. I sent a screenshot of where that first design review was. I sent it to the team. I was like I did not see this coming this way. But here we are, cool and I was excited about it and it was just wow. I just didn't anticipate it translating this way, but I am open to whatever this translation looks like.

Speaker 1: 42:17

There's so much there. I think play and openness are two things I want to touch on.

Speaker 2: 42:23

So when you?

Speaker 1: 42:24

say I went in there and played. What does that mean to you? What does that look like? What did you play with? Yeah, does that look like what did you play with?

Speaker 2: 42:31

Yeah, that's a really good question. I think this is probably where other people choose to play Like. Other creatives are probably playing in a notebook, setting or sketching. I have always just wanted to go straight to digital. The end result I'm one of those people that can't journal because I don't like how messy it is. I struggle with that. So I remember being little and like wanting to keep a journal because that's what all the cool girls were doing and I have terrible handwriting, so then I would get pissed and then I would tear that page out and rewrite it. What the fuck? That's not the point of journaling. Like right, but that is my truth. So that's something that's uncomfortable for me and whatever. Maybe I need therapy to realize that. Like whatever right.

Speaker 2: 43:11

We could argue this, however we want to argue this, but my process is working for me, so we're going to just stick with it, right? So I go straight to my programs right away. I open Adobe Illustrator, which is a vector-based program that you design in, and I start playing with fonts and colors and I pull my inspiration images right into this one file. I build everything in one file so I can see the whole picture, I can see big picture, and then I start pulling apart and building the individual pieces. That gets me back up to big picture and I just have never wanted to document that whole process, I've wanted to just so, basically, as reiterations happen or as iterations are happening, I'm writing over the old stuff. I'm not keeping that old stuff and I'm having an aha moment for me. I wonder, and I speculate, if this is because I'm not naturally organized and so maintaining all of those steps and keeping that organized, I just don't have that skill set, it's very overwhelming to me.

Speaker 2: 44:14

I'm not the girl that buys like five for 25 lotions because it's a better deal. I would lose four of the lotions and then I would go buy five more lotions because I forgot about the four I bought. I just need to pay full price for the one bought. I just need to pay full price for the one. My brain doesn't do that. So I wonder if that's a part of literally what would I do with all those notebooks? What would I do with those pages? I would never remember they're there, I would never re-reference them and therefore for me it doesn't feel like a necessary part of a document worthy process.

Speaker 1: 44:47

I was just talking to my daughter last night about playing guitar and the creative process around it and the process of being imperfect and, for whatever reason, creatives tend to be a little bit more. My perception has been a little bit more perfectionistic and that can hold people back. I think and again, if we're talking about business, we're talking whatever area of life. We're talking about business, we're talking whatever area of life we're talking about there is a process that requires, I think, creativity and messiness to get to wherever you're going.

Speaker 1: 45:19

Yes, and so, as you were talking, I was thinking about like, well, if I'm throwing a pot, which I've never done, let's talk about it, let's talk about it, let's talk about everything moment I'm like there's not a, there's not a step-by-step process for me to I love right analogy so much.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Oh, my god, I see where you're going, I'm just like working with it, keeping you're keeping the final product it's all I'm doing and I'm working with it and watching it evolve as it goes yes, and I know that it's going to be messy, and there might be a point at which I'm like with it and watching it evolve as it goes. Yes, and I know that it's going to be messy and there might be a point at which I'm like fuck it, I just put the whole thing back together and I start again. Yes, and I feel where it wants to go.

Speaker 2: 45:56

Yes.

Speaker 1: 45:57

And I think that you know I see it a lot with people in business, that you know I'm feeling it with a podcast. I just got feedback from a podcast yesterday. It was super helpful for me to shape, shape the next thing, and so I was talking to my daughter about it. I'm like it's kind of a vulnerable thing to be shaping a thing publicly in front of people knowing that it's going to continue to evolve. But if there's any example that I can set for a business person, for my daughters, for anybody, it's like go go and know that it's going to be messy and then iterate and play, play with this thing and watch it become what it's going to become.

Speaker 1: 46:36

I love this Right.

Speaker 2: 46:38

Go and know. You just said Go and know, oh my God, let's get tattoos. That is like so good.

Speaker 1: 46:45

I don't have one. I've been trying to figure out what to get.

Speaker 2: 46:47

Go and know might be a good one. Get a cute little like fine line micro tattoo someplace. That's like so sexy. I have a very large tattoo in a very inappropriate location, like we're just gonna leave that at that. Um, I think that's really really cool and very fascinating. And now that analogy of the pottery yeah, that resonates. No one's fucking saying show me what the first spin on the wheel looked like. That's not how it works, yeah, and I just again. I think it goes back to what works for you, for me. I was trying to fit into and was not. I was being not punished that's aggressive, but I wasn't being rewarded for a process that worked for me, that was different than the standard. And that's when I was like well, it's not that I'm not talented, it's not that I'm not capable, it's just that I don't fit here, for whatever reason. And so good that you were able to see that it was hard.

Speaker 2: 47:48

Did you?

Speaker 1: 47:48

have people seeing that in you, or was this mostly you?

Speaker 2: 47:52

Okay, um, I think probably a little bit of both.

Speaker 1: 47:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:57

I mean, I got the letter that I didn't get accepted into the program at school and I, like, I lost my mind. I collapsed onto the ground. I couldn't breathe. It was like a full on dramatic experience. It was very visceral. I was't breathe. It was like a full-on dramatic experience. It was very visceral. I was extremely upset. I was very embarrassed. Every one of my classmates knew who's getting in and who's not getting in. That was really, really challenging and one of the, of course, greatest things that's ever happened to me. I would have learned at that time. It was the interior design program. I don't know if you noticed this. I'm not an interior designer and I love design, but I think that wouldn't have been it for me, and so I'm very grateful that I had to. I was forced to pivot in a way I would never have chosen, probably.

Speaker 1: 48:43

What's that kitschy phrase? That's like when you get hit a roadblock it's a redirection or something like that.

Speaker 2: 48:48

Literally whatever that one is. That that's it, and it was an absolute, fantastic gift to have been forced to pivot. I'm a high achiever and I like succeeding, and so failing in that moment felt like that oh, you are just a fucking utter failure. And just kidding, that's not at all what it was. It was a nudge in a better direction for me and that's fantastic and same when I applied for a job at the corporate where I was for corporate in the design area. What is so fascinating to me coming out of that experience was, again, it was like hey, in this portfolio, we're not seeing any of your process to get to the end result. Okay, fair, whatever, didn't get the job. What I had produced in that I should go and find it. I had no clue what was going to be hitting the shelves. No clue, that wasn't what my job was at the time. So I just innovated these concepts for this home trend run.

Speaker 2: 49:46

The next three seasons were featuring things that I had included in that design. They didn't take them from me. Those things were already in the works. That's not what I'm saying, but I was on to something. I wasn't wrong. I wasn't off base in hey, these are things that are going to be trend focused. Intuitively, what needed to be created in that moment was the right answer. It was the path though that was not celebrated as to how I got to those things and whatever. In a large conglomerate, there needs to be structure. Again, right, we started talking about university. There needs to be structure. That's how it works and that's what I knew. Ok, that's not for me and I can go find something that is going to be for me, that will work for me and that I can feel really excited and good about doing.

Speaker 1: 50:38

So good, for whatever reason, as you're talking, part of what's coming to mind is you and I are in positions of leadership, ownership, whatever you want to call it, influence, and there are a lot of people listening that are, and just to pause and ask yourself, like, out of all the people that that I get to be around, that are in my world, that I'm in their world, how many of them aren't doing things the way that we think they should be done and I'm missing? Where am I missing their magic? What am I missing? Because I'm looking for a certain structure, a certain way, and then what might I be able to pull out of other people? I just think it's because we're, especially as you grow a business, it's like okay, yep, there does need to be structure, and all of a sudden, something's standing outside of that and you're trying to fit it in there, which is not always advantageous. So I don't know.

Speaker 2: 51:35

I think just to pause on that. It reminds me of raising young kids where it's super easy to say this is right and this is wrong. Yeah, that's the simplest thing to tell a child. They're little sweet brains. But what you're missing in that type of conversation is that spectrum of gray where there are other possibilities, like we'll correct how a kid pours water because oh no, hold it from the handle. We're like could you get the water out of the vessel if you hold it this way? Actually, yeah, you can. And so I think oftentimes we're just used to well, it needs to be done the right way and there is one right way to do that. And that ties again back to this theme that's kind of woven through our time together today is there's more than just this or that. There's and and lives here. It's like the improv, yes, and. And I'm just going to say I'm like this is it, this is improv. You say yes, and the but does it need to be a part of the story?

Speaker 1: 52:35

Yes, and yes, and and also hell yeses.

Speaker 2: 52:39

Oh yeah, we say fuck, yes, at my house. But yeah, my kids don't, they shouldn't. Maybe I need to stop, but but okay, okay, maybe I need to stop but.

Speaker 1: 52:48

Okay, okay, we're nearing the end of our time. I'm trying to decide which question to ask you.

Speaker 2: 52:57

I can see the wheels turning.

Speaker 1: 52:59

I'm going to just leave it open for you. I think I like to ask this question.

Speaker 2: 53:10

What's on your heart and mind, that you want people to hear or that you feel compelled to share. One of the things that I hear most of our clients are women and one of the things that I've really experienced through my time with one-on-one clients, but also at speaking engagements or at networking events or just tapping in with other people in business is this thought and fear that everything needs to be figured out, and I think that's where we get super stuck. Well, one, we literally get stuck and then we don't launch our things. But I think what happens in that mind frame is those limiting beliefs around I have to be a girl boss, or I have to be a soft girl, or I have to be a this or I have to be a that, and instead my hope is that collectively, we can accept the incredible spectrum of who we are and seasonally and I don't mean like the four seasons, but like choose your, pick your season timeframe that can ebb and flow and that's okay. Yeah, I think we're like well, I identified myself as this strong ass business woman and I need a nap and I can't do it because I'm a strong ass business woman. It's kind of like what you were just saying You've been driving and driving, and driving, and probably one of the pauses here is an identity that you've attached to that driving A thousand driving, and probably one of the pauses here is an identity that you've attached to that driving A thousand percent. And so now you're like well, who the fuck am I if I want to go take a nap? Who am I if I want to pivot? Who am I if and I just wish that we innately, could remind ourselves, remind each other, that that evolution is beautiful and it should happen.

Speaker 2: 55:11

Changing your mind is fantastic. Do it in front of an audience. Consumers are so used to seeing brands evolve before their eyes. Do not be fooled. This is not 1950s, mad Men. Consumers. You do not need to launch a fully perfected anything anymore. People love behind the scenes, people love watching shit happen like reality TV. So do not let that stop you and embrace the reality that season to season it's going to look different and that's amazing. That's okay. It's so freeing. It is so freeing, so freeing. It is, it is, and it's hard. It's easier said than done. It's easier said than done. That's something that I'm working on.

Speaker 1: 56:01

It's hard in those little moments. It's actually hard in the moment of can I actually go take a nap? It's actually the small moments for me that have been like why do I feel so guilty right now? And just unpacking that, that, and then eventually that's not hard. Eventually that's not hard. Eventually it's like, oh, because you also build trust with yourself to have this and this Exactly. Yes, it.

Speaker 2: 56:25

I was just because I've got little kids. I was just thinking yesterday, my baby who's not a baby, he'll be one at the end of the month. I remembered last night I was holding him, cradling him before bed which is hard to do now because he's like wiggly and big and I remember two specific days that he was having a, really when he was much younger. He was having a really hard time napping and so I picked him up and I did a contact nap with him on the sofa. So I'm laying down and he's on my chest and I felt so bad that I wasn't working. I'm supposed to work during his nap time.

Speaker 2: 57:11

This is my work time and I fought through those feelings and then I just held him and napped with him and I'm never going to get to do that again, Right? Yeah, I feel that, and all of a sudden he's going to be 17. Like mine, yeah, and he's not going to want me to hold him to sleep. Yep, and as I reflect on that moment, I missed nothing that mattered. Yeah, and I think if we can have more space for and better things happen for all of us, Right.

Speaker 1: 57:59

This is so good, Sarah.

Speaker 2: 58:02

We're all going to still get to hold the big babies, but it's not the same. That's the point. It's not the same. That's the point. It's not the same.

Speaker 1: 58:07

Also, you know, now I'm looking at 17, about to be 16, about to be eighth grade, and I'm also wanting to do just that right now in my life, yes, okay. So, mom, do you think you could, do you think we could? I could be late to school and we could just go grab Starbucks together. Yes, and my work will be there when I get back.

Speaker 2: 58:33

And so will your school.

Speaker 1: 58:34

So will your school, and I mean see. You know the structure and boundaries are.

Speaker 2: 58:39

We're not ready.

Speaker 1: 58:41

I'm just saying. There are these moments throughout the day, throughout the week, when when they're calling on me for different things now or late at night because they had a thing happen at school, and where I could be like, oh, I'm editing this podcast, can it wait? No, no, that like that, can wait. That will be there when I get back. If I miss a week of publishing an episode, that's okay, because what I have right now with them is what I have right now and and I think I want to live all of life that way Because in every phase of life I think there will be those things where I'm not here to produce widgets.

Speaker 1: 59:20

That is not my purpose in my existence, and I also am doing all of this because I want to create. I think there's a way for me to do what you're doing, which is pay the bills with something I love. And that may be idealistic of me, it's not.

Speaker 2: 59:37

I don't think it is, it's not. I think that's also some programming, though, too. Yeah, of like, oh, it's so scheming to try to get make money. Like no, it Like, no, it's not. Yeah, sorry that this is the world where we live. I need to make money. I didn't, I didn't write the rules. We'd be hugging and high-fiving his currency if it was up to me, but here I am not in charge. So like, okay, I'm going to go make my money and I'm going to go live my life. Yes, and I think it, it doesn't even. I love how you said you want to do that in all areas of your life, because this concept extends so much further than motherhood.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:11

If your and isn't motherhood, then it doesn't matter what your and is. I'm just modeling my and as work and momming.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

Yours could be whatever work and traveling.

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

Work and nonprofit, yeah, nonprofit and mom, yeah, naps and naps. Pick your and Do whatever you want for your. And yeah, just be a good person and go do what you want so much.

Speaker 1: 1:00:37

Okay, before we wrap, you mentioned some of this at the beginning. You have so much available to clients and potential clients and I want them to know what they have access to with you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

So can you share?

Speaker 1: 1:00:50

a little bit about what you provide and then how they can get in contact with you, and then I'll share that in just show notes. Yeah fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:00:55

So Free Afternoon is our creative agency where we take all of our one-on-one client work. So this is perfect for somebody who's launching something new or that has a proof of concept and what has worked from them is no longer working. And we need to look at positioning, we need to look at demographics, we need to look at values, voice, mission, tone and then create the tangible visuals that support that strategy. Brand identity work, like I said, web design, etc. All of those touch points that are truly foundational to brand building. That happens over at freeafternoonco Kevin's over at freeafternoonco, and then on heysarahschultzcom. That's a blog with a ton of free resources. We have a paid course that helps people activate on Instagram specifically.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

So really focusing on bringing your brand elements to a good feed experience, which is very exciting today, in today's marketplace, the first question we're often asked is how do I have a good Instagram feed? How do I have a good Instagram feed? How do I get a good feed? And my first note is well, it has nothing to do with Instagram and everything to do with your branding. So we teach a lot about, yeah, instagram and social media and marketing is a thing, but this thing doesn't matter if the foundation isn't built, and so resources like that are available on HeySaraSchultzcom.

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

And then, like you, I have a podcast called the Refund, and we're actually going to start filming, on Monday, a couple of new episodes, and we my co-host, jordan DiIorio, and I talk all about returning outdated business rules that keep us in these limiting beliefs. We specifically talk about these structures that have been built that do not support people that want to live a life like you and I want to live a life, and so how can we kind of return those shitty concepts, get our money back and then go build the life that we want to live? Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:02:39

Thank you for having me, Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your magic with the world. Thank you for being an example of how to live your and courageously. It might not maybe it doesn't feel courageous to you because you've had that kind of knowing in you, but I know from people that are looking on the outside. It looks courageous to them. So thank you for following the goosebumps and like walking this, walking this out. It's so beautiful and powerful. Thank, you?

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

Yeah, thank you, this was fun. I appreciate you having me, yeah.