Sex Coach Sarah Beron on Desires, Communication, and Confidence In The Bedroom

Speaker 1: 0:00

Sarah Baron yes, I'm so thankful you're here today. Welcome to the whole shebang. Thanks, jen, I'm really really happy to be here. Before we hit record, I'll share with the listeners that. Um. So we're gonna talk about sex today, my favorite topic. Yeah, I think it's a really fun and important topic to talk about, and you know, you and I were just talking, before we hit record, about how it's not easy to talk about, which is why I think it's so great that we are today. So thank you for being willing to hop on here.

Speaker 2: 0:37

My pleasure.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Yeah, we'll speak about pleasure too, Okay, so if you wouldn't mind, just like introduce yourself.

Speaker 2: 0:46

Yeah, so I am 41 years old. I am a mom. I've got two daughters, ages 11 and 10. I've been married for 13 years. I've been a math, high school math teacher for 20 years. After 20 years of teaching math, I had to take a break and try something new and kind of yeah, like dive into a passion of mine. Yeah, I own a log rolling business Wait, a sex coaching business.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Hold on. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:21

We just pause and just like what is log rolling Cause I'm imagining it's in water and you're walking on it. Is that what you're doing?

Speaker 2: 1:27

You're rolling the log with your feet. Exactly, You're trying to stay on top of a rolling log which is freely floating in water. What kind of water do you have in your backyard? I just have a little lake. It's very small. Oh okay, yeah, so I'm just like a city pool, you can do it. And yeah, I bring logs to people's backyards, yeah, for, like, family reunions or party, birthday parties or things like that.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Okay, I didn't, I didn't know this. Okay, so log rolling business.

Speaker 2: 1:52

And sex coaching business. So this is my newest, latest. It's been a long time coming. This has been something that, you know, I've always been interested in doing, even as a kid. I remember asking my friends, like how can I be a better friend? And I craved like a lot of like, maybe specifically even negative feedback from people like how can I be better? There's got to be some things that I can be doing better. And so, as an adult, you know, I just kind of noticed that I was just fascinated, I guess, with why some relationships lasted and others ended and how, like this idea of being quote unquote good in bed, like what did that actually?

Speaker 1: 2:32

mean I know just a little bit about. I mean you referenced this that you started to get fascinated with, like what was leading to dynamic relationships and what was not, whether they people in your world or just hearing of people that maybe their relationships were ending solely or because of a lack of intimacy, or did you just start seeing patterns like that and you were like, okay, this is the thing I want to dive into.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Yeah, so, as age, I'm 41 years old and I start kind of watching my friends' relationships and I noticed that a lot of people, after they have kids, struggle to kind of reclaim that sexual relationship or that sexual energy that they had in their 20s maybe or pre kids. And I started to get curious about like what you know, what is it that is blocking these couples, who obviously love each other and they both want this? What is standing in their way? And it was really sad, it was really motivating to, you know, want to solve this problem, want to answer this question, because I watched a lot of friends go through really painful divorces and really struggle and suffer, and so I was like there's got to be something that we can do to help people, you know, before it gets to that point. And I think also I noticed at that time that there really wasn't a lot of helpful information out there that people are talking about. You know, we talk about skills like finance skills, you know, handyman skills, like all these things that you need as adults to, you know, get through life in a healthy way, and we don't talk about relational skills or sex skills, and those two things are so important, kind of relatedly.

Speaker 2: 4:25

As you know, I aged and you know had had kids like life gets tough. You know you've got high stress career. You know you're raising these two children up into you know you're hoping that they're going to be productive adults. It's not easy as an adult. There's a lot of really difficult, stressful things that you have to do and I found that I was so reliant on a really good sex life Like I had problems with my boss at work and you know problems with coworkers, problems with you know friends and you know parents dying and stressors around parenting that I just was so thankful that at night I could go home and turn to my spouse and just get re energized, get, you know, relaxed, relieve some stress, like whatever needed to be done. I could get that through sex and I really relied on that connection, I relied on this foundation and it really like buoyed me and helped me through these difficult times and in life and adult life and I recognize that a lot of my friends didn't have.

Speaker 2: 5:33

I was just gonna say lucky you. I know I really it took a lot of work to get there. I mean, yeah, I, this is not something that just happened for me, I really worked at it. But yeah, this is kind of what I was trying to do. Yeah, this is kind of one of my goals is, like you know, you don't have to wait for the perfect time to have sex. You don't have to be in this on vacation, you know, like in a very stress free environment or feeling quite energized, like you can be tired, you can be stressed, you can be, you know, grieving the loss of a family member, like the death of something or somebody, or, and and still turn to somebody and help get help with that, help processing all these emotions and all these ups and downs of life. So good, I'm taking notes.

Speaker 1: 6:23

Let me take a note on that. I can be tired, I can be. Yeah that's really important. I mean I've found I've had some really beautiful and to make experiences and some of some of the most challenging times in my life, because you, I think there's an ability to be more open and more vulnerable, or you just can't help but be that, and how that translates Exactly To sex. It can be, in my experience, really powerful and beautiful Right.

Speaker 2: 6:50

Like showing up as your full self, with all of your full emotions, whatever they may be at that time, is so sexy, like when you can stand next to somebody and be fully open and like, hey, this is where I'm at. Like that's, that's really lovely and hot and you can really feel that connection If you can do that.

Speaker 1: 7:12

So you said earlier that you found that parents, after they have the kids, were having a harder time, kind of coming back to it, do you think it was just like the drain, the lack of sleep, the tiredness, like what was getting in the way of them finding their way back to that sexiness?

Speaker 2: 7:34

Good, really good question. I think I have a couple different answers. Like biologically, in your 20s, your body is just saying make big money, make babies, make babies procreate, procreate, right. And so it really doesn't matter. You know how connected you like, how skilled you are. I guess Sex is just great, you know. Or it's just just fine, like you think it's great sex right In your 20s.

Speaker 2: 8:00

And it's easy, I guess I should say. And then you know you, you mature and you get to be a more dynamic person, and so your needs change. They become more specific, more sophisticated, and the potential to have really great sex is greatly increased. You need something different, you need something more specific. So if you're going to, you know, as a 40 year old, just try to have the same sex you had in your 20s. It's just not going to be, it's not going to have the same result. And so you know, as you age, it's really important to try to like, get as in touch with exactly who you are and exactly what you want. Get really specific, dive into your body, listen to your body more. A lot of women kind of get into a habit of like maybe enduring or not listening to their bodies.

Speaker 2: 9:03

And not getting exactly what they want out of sex.

Speaker 1: 9:07

And so they just put up with it. So when you say enduring, you mean just like we're just kind of putting up with not getting what I want.

Speaker 2: 9:12

Yeah, not really listening to their bodies, because we're not taught to listen to our bodies all day, every day. You know it's most productive to shut down your body's feelings, get into a nervous system state where you're producing, you're not feeling, you're looking for the next thing, you're always going, going, going. This is what society is encouraging us to do and also just really feed. You know, we're rewarded by all of our things that we get out of our brain, like all the things that our head does, and we're not as rewarded to sink into our bodies.

Speaker 1: 9:53

How do we sink into our?

Speaker 2: 9:54

bodies. So that is a muscle that is weak until you continually try to flex it. And then you're just in your body. Yeah, the goal, I think, for people who want to increase their satisfaction in sex is to work on practicing switching their nervous system from this productive, no feeling mode into embodied feeling mode.

Speaker 1: 10:23

And I just pause for a second Is this the same for male and female? Okay, so both you see it in both genders that like, if you want to have better sex, you need to get out of production. And if I'm thinking of the typical male side of it, you know way better than I do, but that he would be looking at performance mode in the bedroom. 100% Okay, and so for him to have better sex and probably, to quote unquote perform better, he also needs to get out of productive mode?

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yes, 100%. So good sex comes from this energy circuit. That happens when both parties are letting the pleasure sink into their bodies and like really like feeling that that pleasure letting it sink into their bodies and then taking that energy and turning it into desire and then you know, kind of like breathing that energy out into their partner and then their partner can take that in, let it sink in and then bring that back energy. It's the circuit and if one or either partner is one, or both partners are not able to take that pleasure in because they're in their minds, they're in their heads, it just cuts off that circuit.

Speaker 2: 11:51

So I don't know if you've ever had the experience of like you are having sex with somebody and you know it's just like a one. It's just kind of like there's not really that like give and take, give and take. There's like energy or maybe they're, you know, focused on your pleasure and your pleasure alone, and you kind of feel I have a client right now who he's such a good guy. Oh, he's like you know, just a gem, just a great, great guy, and he's so generous in bed and like respectful, and he just wants his partner to have so much pleasure that what has happened is he is just so focused on her. It's like he's kind of just watching her and like, you know, doing things to her and like watching her and just as like how about this? Does this feel good? How about this, how about this, and she's you know, I want you to be with me.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Yes, the effect. The effect, and this has been going on for so many years for them. The effect on her is that she feels watched, you know, she feels pressure to respond and there's no circuit. And so what he really is working on doing is is sinking into his body, touching to receive, touching for pleasure, and then, once he can like really, you know, receive in that pleasure, and then and then that desire can be showered on his, his partner. She'll feel that desire and that is what is going to turn her on. And we're told all the time be generous and bad, you know, make sure she comes first, which is which is all great, but you also have to like, really breathe in, you know, like relax into receiving, and otherwise that that circuit is just going to get cut off and your partner will feel that and thinking about the classic scenario of I feel like we hear a lot about this or maybe it's portrayed in sitcoms or whatever that there's the woman that just is not into it.

Speaker 1: 13:55

She's for whatever reason. Maybe she isn't feeling pleasure, or maybe she's exhausted because she has kids, or and I'm stereotyping here and we're talking about her own normative situation right now. But I was talking to one of my guy friends not too long ago and he was like, yeah, I've been in situations where I'm with a woman that I can just tell or in a previous relationship, like they're just kind of not into it, you know. And for a man that is like I want to feel the circuit and I want to bring you pleasure, that it's like it feels pretty icky, like it feels almost like I'm just like masturbating with their body or taking advantage, like it feels really gross. For a man, that's not, they're not like I just want to come, like they actually care. So what would you say to a couple like that, whatever the role is, where one partner is like I'm not feeling it and the other one is like this feels icky, right, this?

Speaker 2: 14:53

is so common. I think, yeah, and yeah, there are definitely like a couple of things. I mean, there are people that are not just not as interested in sex, and that is just who they are. And so I guess the first question you know I would have is you know, does she want to experience more pleasure? You know she just think, hey, I can't. I want to, but I can't. You know, that would be my first question. And then the second question is you know, hey, let's take some time and dive into what it is that you want.

Speaker 2: 15:26

I think a lot of women especially, but maybe men too, men too, a lot of people haven't taken the time to find what I call their core desire. Most people have a core desire. This is what they want to feel to be the most turned on during sex. This is what motivates you to have sex. This is why you do this weird thing naked with somebody else, you know, when there are plenty of other things you could be doing, right? So what do you really want to feel during sex? And this as many people as there are in the world. There are as many answers to this question, and the interesting thing about this question is you have no control over it. This is something stemming from childhood.

Speaker 1: 16:15

I am fascinated, right now I need some examples, like what is this core desire.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Well, this is a core desire that stems from it usually stems from an unmet need in childhood that you comforted yourself, maybe even non sexually at first, by feeling this feeling. So for some people like let's just use an example like your mom, when you were growing up, ignored you, okay, and so when that happened to you, you either you know, took comfort in being ignored, like this is your mom, this is, you know this, you expect this, or you imagined being lavished with attention and so, as an adult, what that does is that turns into your core desire, and either it can be like repetition with agency or repetition with authority it's called it and you will will ask your partner hey, I want you to ignore me when we're having sex and that turns me on or you can repair.

Speaker 1: 17:20

So you can repair, yeah, and you discover the core desire. Yes, and let's say the core desire is to be ignored. You're saying that that could be a real one.

Speaker 2: 17:29

That's an example.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Yeah, and that that's okay. That that, Because to me it feels Exactly. I'm quoting that as unhealthy in my mind.

Speaker 2: 17:37

I'm like oh, I know this is so good. Great. I'm so glad you stopped me there because, yes, this is 100% okay, because even if it came from an unmet need and you're asking somebody to repeat that really kind of painful thing about your childhood, the difference is now that you are choosing it, and you're choosing it with consent. You're choosing it with agency and you have absolutely no control over it. This is not something that you can therapize your way out of it. The only choice you have is either you can be ashamed of it and then not give yourself pleasure with it, or you can choose to embrace it, de-shamify it, know that you have no control and go ahead and use it to your maximum pleasure.

Speaker 1: 18:26

And to restrain it. Yeah, okay, where did I stop you? Because then you said you could either.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah, so you Some people choose that repetition with agency and that is 100% wonderful, great. Or what happens to you is the opposite effect is what turns you on the most. So you might discover that if your partner lavishes you with attention and just pays extra careful attention to every single square inch of your body or all of your emotions, that's what turns you on the most, and still comes from that same unmet need of being ignored. But it just had two different kind of pathways into pleasure.

Speaker 1: 19:05

So interesting. So how do you discover what your core desire? Core desire, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:11

How do you discover that? Good question. Yeah, in my session this is like a main thing that I do almost with every client and we tap into, we practice at first kind of getting embodied and tapping into the feelings that we have in our bodies and we sink into that. So it takes a few sessions to flex that muscle and really get good at getting in touch, getting it tuned to yourself, and then we run through your greatest sexual experience, whether it's something that you've actually had, or maybe it's a fantasy, maybe it comes from a movie or a book, but usually people know, have an idea of what specific experience would turn them on the most. It shows up, you can't deny it. As soon as you give it permission to come forth. It's there and the key is to give yourself full, 100% permission to feel however it is that you feel.

Speaker 2: 20:17

And then so we talk about this I don't know experience or fantasy that really turns you on. And then we really sink into the actual feeling that you had at that time. So what were the feelings? Yeah, okay, this was happening, these actions or these words or this context or this place but what were the actual feelings that you were having at that time and then, once we pinpoint the feeling, then we can build I call it your hot as sexual movie. You can build your hot as sexual movie from those feelings Like how can we really get you to feel that way, the most fun way possible? And then we practice teaching your hot as sexual movie to your partners. So this is what I like. Can you do this?

Speaker 1: 21:05

Yeah, I was just going to ask. So then you have what if you and your partners to hot as sexual movies are not in alignment?

Speaker 2: 21:14

This will happen 100% of the time. I had actually one of my teachers of my program. She said that she had 500 partners and she found only one of them had her hot as sexual movie. Same core desires, same hot as sexual movie, basically, and they were just very compatible. So it's just almost 100% likely that you're not going to have a partner with your same hot as sexual movie.

Speaker 2: 21:41

The great news is there that you kind of take turns, like you learn her hot as sexual movie and she learns yours, and then you kind of alternate. It's like hey, you like dramas, I like comedies. We'll watch a comedy tonight and a drama tomorrow night, is that okay? The good news is that usually your partner's hot as sexual movie is really exciting and enjoyable to you, even if it's not your hot as. And then sometimes too, if they're actually very incompatible which sometimes happens like hey, her hot as sexual movie, I just cannot do that. That's okay too. What part of that can you do? What part of it can't you do? And then usually we can find a bridge. It does happen that like somebody's like hey, I can just never, ever, ever do any of that. And they're like well, this is really important to me. And then you know it might be a good idea to have open the relationship or find something new.

Speaker 1: 22:40

I'm going to maybe get this wrong. You right at the beginning, you talked about that there are things that can get in the way of our best impotency. We're going to outtake that one that there are things that can get in the way of our best intimacy and that there are things that support that. So what are the common things that you see that you know are like getting in people's way of the best?

Speaker 2: 23:04

Yeah, great question. There definitely is some things that can block intimacy, block desire, block arousal, shame, any sort of shame like you know, body image, it just, it just cuts off that pathway to intimacy and arousal. And there are a lot of things that we can do about shame. We can totally like we, I'm a ruthless de-shame-afire, like that is. It's amazing what you can do with shame and really like we can work with that.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Just give me one example of like what you would do if somebody had body shame.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Yeah, that's an example. So shame, you know we've Brene Brown shame only lives in secrecy and silence. So it's really kind of the most powerful thing I can do to help somebody de-shame anything even like body image is just to hear them out and still love them and be with them, right To say I am still here with you and think that you know you're so worthy and you're so beautiful and I'm not gonna. You can tell me all of the things that you're so shamed about and I'm still here. So the more we can speak the shame and Witness people not moving away from us, yes, but there are a lot of things we can do. We can celebrate with the person any, um, you know steps that they can take towards, you know, de-shamifying themselves. We celebrate a lot in my practice, um, we can also shake our fists at society and, like you know we can, we can definitely pinpoint, like, why we have the shame and it's somewhere outside of us. Um, yeah, we can get mad, you know all those things.

Speaker 2: 24:53

So shame, shame, um, any sort of resentment built up in relationships that can definitely black arousal and intimacy. So we practice repair in my practice with my clients where, um, it's a really specific conversation that you can have with a partner who is hurt you and you have, um, like, yeah, resentment built up or really any sort of negative feelings. So it's a repair relationship that I'd love to teach anybody, and everybody like people should be doing this repair over and over and over again constantly in relationships and, um, it's really the number one thing that I think we can improve upon in our society is these repair relationships and repair or repair conversations. I should say, yeah, shame, resentment and then any sort of lack of confidence. You know, I have a client right now who he and his partner went through a really difficult time and the result was that he lost his he totally lost his confidence in the bedroom and so now he is just having to like, rebuild that.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Gaining new confidence?

Speaker 2: 25:58

Yeah, and the confidence back up and really that's mostly about just listening to your body. It's mostly about getting out of your head and thinking about you know all the things.

Speaker 1: 26:07

That's not what this is just to me. I just in so many of the conversations I'm having, in every facet of light, it is becoming so apparent how important it is to get out of our heads and get into our bodies so many reasons.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Our bodies are, yeah, really, um. Well, I guess I just want to say like if you are only in your head and not listening to your body, then you're not showing up usually as your full self, and everybody around you can tell that, and it just did. The results are not as good. I think we were talking about this at your party where, like my first time, I was challenged by my class that I was taking like, okay, your homework is to sink into your body before you walk into the grocery store. And the first time I did that, I was in the parking lot and I did my exercise, where I just like connected to my my pussy, basically and like sunk into my body. And you know, I opened my eyes and I opened my car door and I walked into the grocery store and two men came up and gave me like the rolled carts over to me and presented me with a cart. I did that. Here's the story.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Oh, yes, yes, and I just I walked through the whole grocery store and I was just mostly, like you know, paying attention to this experience, and people acted, reacted differently. I actually had a woman come up to me and say are you a therapist? What, out of the blue, I had not said anything to her, and I turned to her and I said, well, kind of, I'm a coach and she's like I can tell you've got good energy, isn't that wild? It was the most bizarre thing. And so I just think, like if we could practice that on a more daily basis, show up for your kids in your body, show up for your spouse, for your partner, show up for your boss, show up for your clients as your full embodied, attuned self. Because if you're attuned to your body, then actually it's so much easier to be attuned to other people because your bodies, your nervous systems are speaking to each other. And so if I can like tune into what my body is saying, my body knows what your body is saying, my body can like our nervous systems.

Speaker 1: 28:29

We are animals. I like to just remember like we are animals and we can write. Is that kind of what that is when our nervous systems can sense each other?

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yes, Okay, yeah, we're speaking to each other. I can tell if you're like, yeah, if you're all like I don't know, nervous over there, my body is going to get nervous, and then I can, I can, if I can attune to that, then I can be like, okay, what's going on? You know, is there something that we need to be nervous about? Whereas if I'm just in my head, you're nervous over there and you can tell I have no idea you're nervous, like I'm just like cut off from my body.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Yeah, huh, I love this stuff. This is so wild. Okay, let's talk about you. What's the phrase you used? Um sex skills? Oh yeah, you said it's just one of the things we don't talk about. We talk about all kinds of other skills. So what are some?

Speaker 2: 29:19

let's dive into that. Sex is really all about, like you know, sensing into your body and then taking a sip of the other person's body and then sensing into your body again and then taking a sip of the other person's body. You know, you're like really attuning to your body and attuning, attuning to your partner's body in this loop. The kind of part of that too is like really sensing into what exactly you want in the bedroom, the skills of communicating that, um, in a really you know not.

Speaker 1: 29:47

Do you communicate it in the moment? Is it a conversation you have beforehand? Is it just like, Sarah, we need to come see you?

Speaker 2: 29:55

I think it's a whole setup of the relationship also, yes, and I think it's before, I think it's during, I think it's all day long, I think it's, you know, as you're doing the dishes together.

Speaker 2: 30:09

I think there's like this, you know, level of trust and intimacy Excuse me that you can build that really, you know, allows you to have those sorts of like really intimate. You know conversations either, yeah, during sex or right before um. I would say definitely right before, definitely during Um and that's the tricky thing too, because you don't want to start explaining things Um, until you are able to be really embodied and your partner is able to be really embodied. Why is that? Or tell me more about that? Yeah, because sometimes during sex, if you are not, if you are your partner and are just like in your heads, um, then like any sort of tip or trick or any sort of pointer pointer, yeah, exactly, it's just going to make the person more in their head, right, like you don't want to be actually thinking about. You know exactly this, the skills that you're trying to execute.

Speaker 1: 31:16

You don't want to be like, I'm going to do that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:19

Remember she said, like not too firm or not too fast or whatever. Um then, like any sort of tip or trick or any sort of pointer pointer yeah, Exactly, it's just going to make the person more in their head Like you don't want to be actually thinking about. You know exactly this, you know, um, the skills that you're trying to execute. You don't want to be like I'm just like, don't do that yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:50

Remember she said, like not too firm or not too fast or whatever. Um, yeah, the goal is to stay embodied and be able to communicate at the same time, and that's a pretty difficult skill yeah. So I guess I would just start by just getting really embodied, communicate with your bodies, and maybe not so many pointers until you can get really good at that and feel really comfortable there. Um.

Speaker 1: 32:18

I think I heard somebody say once you can communicate a lot without words. Yeah, and so if you're embodied and you're responsive, and if both partners are responsive and if you're both attuned To each other's responses whether it's a noise or it's a something that's a cue, that's like, yes, that feels good or no, that's not. That's not quite right. Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Yeah, and really those Like you said. You said it exactly right. You are the most responsive when you yourself are embodied. If you can get embodied, then there's a lot that you can communicate without words. But to to communicate a hot as sexual movie, Um, and I really encourage my clients to be as specific as possible you probably will need words for that.

Speaker 2: 33:08

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, first let's just focus on letting our bodies connect to each other, letting our bodies do the communicating and really build that intimacy there and build that safe, free space that we all need to get the most aroused. Yeah, and your nervous system will quickly learn to be in that state. Yeah, if, if you can like really achieve that and kind of practice that, then you know, anytime you're like you know, getting ready to have sex, your nervous system will jump on into that state and be like, yeah, okay, I'm getting embodied.

Speaker 1: 33:45

And then maybe that's why it's easier like carcining back to you saying, like you can be tired, you can be in grief. Exactly, and if you can tap into being embodied more quickly and getting out of your head. I would imagine that it's less of a to do, to be like okay here we go again.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Exactly, I have a lot of clients that are like, oh, I have to work myself out towards to sec, to having sex like all day. I have to like pump myself up, this is going to happen. I got to go, you know, and really like I think it's possible if, if you get embodied and like you get to to this goal, that sex can be as relaxing as watching TV. You know, I have a lot of clients that are like busy after a really stressful day at work and they want to just go home and veg out. Like let's totally veg out and relax and sink into each other's bodies and like let sex be really relaxing or reinvigorating and not full of effort. You know how do you make that happen.

Speaker 1: 34:43

I mean, that sounds lovely to me. I'm just thinking about I've had experiences like that. I'm thinking about people that are like it just always feels like work and tell it feels good, yeah, yeah. Is it all coming back to the embodiment piece?

Speaker 2: 35:01

I think, first of all, letting ourselves free of what we think sex is or how we have been taught. Sex is Sex in movies, sex in books, maybe the sex that you had in your 20s. Maybe that was very energetic or a certain way. I'd love to really just allow us to expand the idea of what sex could be. Maybe you come together with your partner and you have just one ex-tired sex. It would have to just be really a full of a lot of breath, work and exchanging a lot of energy and just really slow movements. That can just be so relaxing and just kind of like meditating together. Almost You're not expending a lot of energy. If your nervous system is in this really relaxed state and used to being in that comfortable, relaxed state with this person, then I think that's possible.

Speaker 2: 36:11

Another example is my husband's dad died recently and we had a lot of grief sex. We were just really in grief together. This was just a really good way to find connection and reach out to that other person, support that other person. Maybe you're crying the whole time. Whatever needs to be done, instead of turning away from your partner or partners, let's see what happens if you turn toward your partner or partners and say I'm tired, let's see what happens. I am grieving, I am stressed. Let's see what happens. Let's see what we can do with this emotion. Let that be cool. Let that be really varied. Let that be part of the way that you support each other in this life that is full of ebbs and flows.

Speaker 2: 37:06

I'm frustrated. Let's have frustrated sex.

Speaker 1: 37:11

I love how you said let's expand what we think about what sex can be, because I do think it can be really narrow. I think it would be helpful to talk about a couple of the anatomical things I'm thinking about classic bedroom problems, which may be he can't keep an erection for long enough or she's not orgasming, or other things that I don't know about, that I'm not thinking about. Can you speak to some of those?

Speaker 2: 37:49

things. Definitely the first thing. I ask a lot of questions have you ever been able to keep an erection? What are you thinking about when your erection goes away? Like, how much are you thinking about it before it goes away? Try to get, and then take a little brief history too. When did this start happening? Because usually, or sometimes it's because they're too much in their head. I guess I'm just coming back to that. Sometimes women who have difficulty orgasming or men who have difficulty keeping erection or ejaculate before they want to, it's because they're not feeling into their bodies enough. Men who ejaculate before they want to oftentimes are like oh, I'm not going to think about that, I'm not going to feel. Then they're just not aware of their arousal, it seems like it's opposite of what you would think.

Speaker 1: 38:50

If I focus on the feeling, then it's going to be not good, exactly, but the opposite is true, be in touch with your body.

Speaker 2: 38:58

You want to feel. Be in touch with your body. Women who have trouble orgasming maybe haven't found their core desire, maybe are not allowing themselves to sink into receiving, maybe are not allowing themselves to be specific enough with their partners, maybe aren't practicing being embodied and really getting that full. Sometimes I ask my clients imagine that only your nerve endings exist and that is it. You are focused on only what your nerve endings are experiencing right now. Wow, I think it's a good way to sink into every single feeling that you're having, every single sensation. We don't practice that.

Speaker 2: 39:50

I'm a teacher and we can never use the bathroom during the day. It's like ignore it the fact that you have to pee, just ignore it. You're sick and tired and you still have to go to work and perform at your highest ability. We're constantly shutting off all of our feelings. It's a really alien thing to suddenly try to tap into that. There's a lot of pain there too. A lot of people have pain that still lives in their connective tissue, into their bodies. It's a difficult thing to sink into their bodies and feel all of the feelings, because there's a lot there. It's just easier to stay in your head and then when you do, I think there's sometimes problems arise. I don't want to say that there are never medical issues. There are definitely sometimes things that a medical doctor should be informed about and encourage people to talk to their doctor about these things.

Speaker 1: 40:52

If there's somebody listening today that their sex life is not what they want or needed to be, and maybe the conversation hasn't been open at all with their partner where do they start? What do you say?

Speaker 2: 41:14

I always encourage people to ask permission to have an emotional conversation before diving right in. Find timing tone so important to getting the results you want. You go up to your partner and you say is now a good time? I have been thinking about something. It's emotional, it's difficult. I'm wondering if you're available for that right now. Are you tired, stressed, All these things that are going to make you not react? Well, If your partner is not available, say okay, let's find a time where you are available because this is important to me. Then my number one piece of advice when you find time and your partner is listening, take a minute and be as vulnerable and talk about only yourself as much as you can. It takes a lot of strength to do that. I'm going to get kind of emotional here because it's really hard to just bear yourself. Be just totally emotionally naked and open to anybody. It's scary, it's hard. We don't practice that. Also, if you can do that, people respond well. Your partner will likely respond really well to that.

Speaker 1: 42:47

The pinpoint that you're saying and where the emotion is coming up for you is that when you go to somebody vulnerably open, focused on you and what your experience is, or what you need or the shame or whatever it is that you're feeling that they'll be responsive to that, versus getting defensive or versus. If I come to the conversation with like, I'm really frustrated because you never want, blah, blah, blah. You've never did that. Of course, they're more likely to be defensive in that moment. How do I?

Speaker 1: 43:22

show up really open and really vulnerable For you. I'm going to ask this is kind of adjacent to the topic, but I'm curious just because I'm curious where is the emotion coming from for you? Is it what? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 43:40

Yeah, since doing this work, I've just become really emotional. Anything that's really difficult is right there. For me, this one is, I think, the power of being vulnerable. I have seen, I have witnessed what happens when somebody really digs deep and is able to be vulnerable, the different response they get from their partners versus typically. You know, yeah, people get defensive because we are, because it's really difficult to be vulnerable. It's really hard to do that.

Speaker 1: 44:23

Yeah, and I think it's an idea we've all heard. We know that if we're going to go to a problem, own what you can own. Don't point fingers and that's not always easy to do, especially if we're wanting to protect ourselves because, of whatever is happening. So I think it's a really big takeaway from, hopefully from this conversation that people can just pause and take the time to be intentional with what is a really important conversation. What do you think we haven't talked about that people need or want to hear?

Speaker 2: 44:58

Go ahead and imagine whatever is coming up for you and give yourself free reign, get specific, let yourself sink into what you want to feel. Once you've defined those things, and once you flush that out yourself, then communicate that to your partners and see if you can bring them along, get them on board. And I'm not saying that every single one of your fantasies you need to communicate. If you just love, you've got your handful of fantasies that you just are really happy to keep yourself, that's awesome. That's great too. But if there are some things that you might enjoy somebody saying or doing, give yourself permission to ask. It's exciting. People, I think, want to hear those things and want to know.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Usually, I imagine that they would. It would be fun to find out. That would be like caught off guard, like, oh god, she's telling me I'm in the seas, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:01

I think that's such a really loving thing that you can do is let somebody really turn you on. Like what a gift, right, they love you, they want to turn you on. Share what turns you on with your partner or partner.

Speaker 1: 46:14

I love the way you put that. What a gift. So let somebody turn you on. Yeah, yeah, that's yummy.

Speaker 2: 46:22

And then that desire will just be showered back on them, and that'll really turn them on.

Speaker 1: 46:27

And then you'll find it seems to me that, like once you get the fire going, you know that it's going.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Yeah, I think that is true. I think it. We do have to kind of keep in mind that people are still always learning about themselves, so there's always going to be nothing's going to ever stay the same. So if you have this really hot sex life right now, awesome. But keep in mind your partner and you are going to be developing and changing and finding out new things about yourself, and so keep that curiosity going, keep that open door going, keep that open conversation going, check in a lot, share a lot. You know. But yeah, I think it's totally true that you know, if you can kind of get that fire going, then your nervous system feels really open and really ready and like embodied and comfortable and free and confident and all of that just leads to more discoveries and more communication and greater sex.

Speaker 1: 47:31

That's so good. I love that principle of curiosity Again a basic one, but just in all of life, as we are evolving it with anybody really friends, partners, whomever, but taking that idea to one another, that I know you're going to continue to evolve and I'm going to commit to be curious to your evolution and what that kind of commitment to ourselves and to one another looks like I think is wildly powerful.

Speaker 2: 48:02

Oh, it's huge yeah, because it takes the judgment away, it takes the defensiveness away, it keeps that door open. Yeah, yeah, curiosity is great, great. Yeah let's keep that going.

Speaker 1: 48:17

My upbringing was very conservative religious, so it wasn't until later years that I'm like how would I even know where to get what to explore, like what to get creative with, because I just didn't have any framework Right.

Speaker 2: 48:39

There are some ways that we can encourage our daughters and our sons to have curiosity in this idea of exploring and communicating about sex instead of this like virgin culture or body shaming, or productive over feeling you know I do.

Speaker 1: 49:00

Let's pause here and talk about this. We're going to talk about this. Okay, I'm trying to. You know I've got three daughters and I will A in this conversation even today. I want to protect kind of their privacy in this conversation knowing that this is public.

Speaker 1: 49:18

But I think it's really important that we think about how we're speaking to our children and some of the input that I've gotten. When I tell my friends, like, about the conversations I'm having with my kids, they're like whoa, that's great, and some of the don't have kids. So they experienced what I experienced growing up, which is like we didn't really talk about it, and I don't think that also has necessarily everything to do with my religious upbringing. I think that that may be a more of a generational thing, that it was like we just don't really talk about sex. And there is a internet now. There's a lot of information out there and they are absolutely going to find out about things and be shaped by either religion or what they're taught in school, or what they see online, or pornography, or there's a lot of different ways that our children can be shaped. So how do we have the conversation? What does it look like? What do you say to that? I mean, you've got kids. Yeah, what's important to you to convey to your children?

Speaker 2: 50:33

Yeah, I think it changes as they age. You can add things as they grow up, but from the very beginning it includes conversations about what it is they feel, they like, they want. So the classic do I have to hug Uncle Paul? Like no. You can make a choice about how comfortable you feel and do what your body is telling you it wants to do. Also paying attention to what feels good and what feels bad. Do you like it when I brush your hair like this? Simple questions like that as they're growing up as toddlers.

Speaker 1: 51:18

That is so great that you're connecting these things right now, because I don't know that a lot of us would be connecting that. We're asking them what feels good and what doesn't, and helping them understand what it means to have agency.

Speaker 2: 51:32

Exactly and like being in touch with their bodies and what their bodies are feeling in that moment and taking that time to, instead of brushing their hair and rushing out the door like, okay, I'm brushing your hair right now, we're going to focus on what's happening at this moment and be in that moment.

Speaker 2: 51:51

And then, as they age, you know, I love the idea of separating what society or what their friends are telling them versus how they feel, like you know, anytime you can ask your kids well, how do you feel about what so and so said? How do you feel about what so and so did? Like, noticing that they are not what their friends are saying, they're not what their friends are doing, they're not what society is saying or what society is doing. They can make their own decisions and then, as they approach puberty, you know, giving them full permission to do whatever they want to do, as long as it's what they want to do and it's not. And they have to really think carefully about whether they're feeling pressure from their friends, whether they're feeling pressure from their boyfriends, whether they're feeling pressure from somebody else outside of them to do anything, or whether it's really coming from their bodies and what they want.

Speaker 1: 52:50

So I'm like the classic. I think reservation on this correctly, yeah, and that's just my perspective is I'm afraid that they're going to get hurt is kind of, I think, a common. So my job as a parent is to protect them. And their brains aren't developed. Can they make those decisions for themselves? Where do I step in and where do I not step in to set boundaries for them while they're underage, whatever that means? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:18

All of those things can be part of that conversation. Like, hey, your brain, yeah, your brain is not developed enough. You know, maybe you're not ready to make that decision. This is the research about brain development. Give them that information and they will 100% get hurt, no matter what. Yeah, and getting hurt is hard, but it's not bad, it's really great. You know, we've all been like really hurt by relationships and made really bad decisions and, yeah, like it would have been easier and nicer and more fun if we hadn't, and we wouldn't have learned as much if we hadn't. Like life is, yeah, full of like good hurts and as much as we don't want to watch our loved ones go through that, they will and it's good. I know that was kind of harsh. I could get that out if you want.

Speaker 1: 54:18

No, I think I, I agree with you. I I think like just real talk. I'm thinking about STDs and I'm thinking about pregnancy. That isn't planned.

Speaker 2: 54:31

So definitely all the information about pregnancy, definitely all the information about STDs. You know we want to make them afraid of getting pregnant before they're ready, Fear of God of pregnancy before they're ready. Get all of that information out there, all of that STD all information, all that brain development information, you know. Pump them full of every piece of information that we can and still give them 100% permission to. Once you know all of these things, what do you want to do? And whatever you want to do, given all of this information, as long as it's you who is making that decision, you have full and complete permission to do so. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:09

I think one of the things that's important to me is well, it just really comes back to what you're saying, like what gets in the way of people's best sex life, best intimacy. The first one is shame, and I think, whether it's body shame or shame about sensuality in general, or feeling dirty, or self judgment on different things, that I just I want them to know that it isn't dirty or bad.

Speaker 2: 55:37

Right, if they have this like inner flame, it's great. Like, I think that's great, I think like, go for it, have fun there, like if that is really coming from your body, like, yeah, there's no, there's no reason not to do that in a safe environment, you know, with all the information. Yeah, be smart.

Speaker 1: 55:59

I know we just hope you and I instantly like yeah, and then we light up with all of the yeah but which are yeah, but okay, which is really natural. It's like okay, this feels natural, you have a desire, there is no shame, it is not dirty or bad, Go for it. And then there's all these yeah but lined up in my mind.

Speaker 2: 56:18

And those, yeah, but are great because we're having those conversations Like I think, the number one thing talk about it, talk about it, talk about it and de-shamifying weight, okay, anything else on your harder mind, we complete.

Speaker 1: 56:33

I think so Okay, I think this was great. I can't think of anything else? Okay, so I will share your information in the show notes on where people can get ahold of you, so you're available to take me find out.

Speaker 1: 56:46

Perfect. Yes, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for I just feel like I always want to tell people in the most genuine way possible. Thank you for following your truth and your path. You know you've been through iterations and you've you've seen a challenge in relationships. You've felt compelled towards things. It's not easy to take any leap in life, and particularly in a topic that is harder for a lot of people to talk about. So thank you for helping pave that way and for being here today in a public platform to have a conversation that isn't always easy to have.

Speaker 2: 57:34

That feels so good. It has been difficult, it was a difficult journey to follow and, yeah, I'm really excited to be starting it and being surrounded by people like you really helps me. So thank you for doing your work, too, and allowing me to be here today and really challenging me and pushing me forward and encouraging me, encouraging all of us.

Speaker 1: 58:03

That's what this is about to me. I was saying to somebody the other day like one of the things I kind of knew in my head about this podcast but I'm now starting to feel it and experience it is that I'm like, oh, we're building a community because if people are taking an hour to listen to a thing and they're taking the time to come have the conversation, we are like-minded enough. And now my next is like how do I pull the community together? What would it look like to get us all in the same room?

Speaker 2: 58:35

Sounds like a place I want, to be for sure.

Speaker 1: 58:37

Yeah, so it's been really fun, but I'm excited to see how this unfolds for you. I won't be surprised when people continue to reach out to you and this flourishes the way that it's designed to. Thanks, thanks.

Speaker 2: 58:51

Yeah, I'm excited too. Thanks for watching.