Living a Sensual Magnetic Life and Finding Your Wild with Madden Zappa

Speaker 1: 0:00

there is something wild inside each and each and every single one of us, but there are lots of things that work against us to keep that wild in and keep something tame. But once you start to work through what that actually is and you realize that it has nothing to do with you, that you can let some of those chains go and there's a lot of freedom when you allow yourself to live your wild.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Hello, it's me, your host, jen, and fellow journeyer on this path of learning how to reintegrate feminine energy into the boardroom. So we'll talk about things like conscious capitalism and leading with vulnerability and awareness and connection and play. We'll be diving into the bedroom. So basically, we're going to talk about the horizontal mambo In all seriousness. We're going to look at how to create a deeper level of intimacy and connection in your romantic partnerships, but also in all of our relationships. I think we've become so disconnected, so how do we gain that in our relationships? And then we're going to look beyond that into any tool or practice that helps us become more magnetic and more full. So manifestation techniques, meditation and personal development approaches that will help us move through challenges to step into our brightest, fullest, most magnetic version of ourselves. It's all the things. It is the whole shebang. So buckle up buttercups, we're diving in. You are in for a delightful little treat today with this episode.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Our guest, madden Zappa, is a feminine and sensuality coach. She's supporting professional women to reclaim their confidence and power to attract the relationships they crave. And I would also say you're going to take away some things from this episode to create the relationship you crave if you're currently in one. So I've been saying for 15 episodes in the intro that will dive into the bedroom and we do that today. So we talk about what it means to live essential life, some of those dating dynamics attracting versus chasing We've talked about as women how we've made romance and dating maybe confusing for men. We also dive into tuning into your body and knowing what you like and dislike in and outside of the bedroom. Madden shares how she's been exploring or has found that there's something wild in each of us and what it means to be free. We even get to hear a little bit about her vulnerable journey into pole dancing and boudoir shoots and how all of that stuff used to trigger her but it enlightened her to start to go down that path. So can't wait for you to hear more. I hope you enjoy Madden. Welcome to the whole shipping. Thanks, I'm so excited to be here, excited to have you. I'm going to share. I like to share with people how I know the people that come on my cast, which I think this is really.

Speaker 2: 3:13

I don't know if I've ever told you this. Actually you were the very first yoga class I ever went to in my whole entire life. No way. How many years ago is this like? Maybe three years ago, two years ago? I was like a 39 year old woman. Yeah, I had no clue. Yeah. So we met in yoga class and then I probably didn't maybe I told you this part. So it was like my first class ever.

Speaker 2: 3:39

Thank me, I was going through a breakup at the time or something like that. I don't remember, but I was like I feel like I need some, something, you know, and I'm like my spirituality has changed so much. I'm like not going to church, I'm not doing anything with that. So I come to the class and we were doing pigeon pose at the very end. So, for people that don't know yoga, you know like just doing the pose, thinking it's all normal, and then you're like you, so create an environment in there too, like when you're walking around with the stage, the stage and the way you're like reading people and they walk in, and the way you bring people like you. I'm like, oh, this is church and that's like bring in us to church today. So then I'm in pigeon pose at the end, which, like is a hip opener. Yeah, and I didn't know, I don't know anything about any of this at the time and I'm just like breathing and all of a sudden I'm crying my brains out.

Speaker 1: 4:37

And I'm like what is happening.

Speaker 2: 4:40

So I left and I'm like, okay, I'm coming back every week for a very long time and I did for a while and you brought us through like a series of chakras and all kinds of stuff. So I am so grateful to have had that experience and to have had you, like, guide me into I had no clue. Yeah, that's amazing. You make an impact on people's lives in really, really ways. That was like an opening for me to so much of the work that I'm doing now. Oh my gosh, I love that.

Speaker 1: 5:09

Thank you for sharing, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Okay, so, so that's my experience, madden. Now, madden, will you like tell the listeners a little bit like about you and your background and how you got into this work?

Speaker 1: 5:21

Oh my gosh, where do we even begin? So my introduction to anything energy related started in 2011, when my mom brought me to my very first yoga class and I just fell in love with how old were you then?

Speaker 2: 5:37

Oh, should I not ask your age?

Speaker 1: 5:38

Oh, that's fine, I was. I was a junior in high school Okay, cool, just a babe, um but I fell in love with the whole practice. I grew up as a dancer and so, especially as I went into college, there's not a lot in terms of exploring dance as an outlet as you get older, and so making my way to my mat was a way to still explore movement in a really like slow and fluid way. And while I was in a college, I experienced a lot of pain in terms of mental health and eating disorder, and my mat was always my safe space, always the place where I felt most at home and most connected to my body, which I desperately needed during that time. So once I graduated college, I knew hands down that I wanted to go through YTT and create an experience and create a space. Yoga teacher training yeah, a teacher training, create a space for other people. That was created for me in a time that I needed it most. So went through all of my teacher trainings, started teaching and then I moved to London for a year.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Wow, yeah, and rewind a little bit. I grew up very, very Catholic, my whole entire family's Catholic. I went to Catholic grade school, high school, college, and once I moved out and explored things, I was like something doesn't feel right. And so I continued to explore the religious path, but it just it wasn't clicking, it didn't feel like at home, it didn't feel safe to me, it just it didn't make sense in my body and my being. And so I started exploring more of what is spirituality, what is energy work? Oh, what are the faces of the moon, what the heck are crystals and all of that stuff.

Speaker 1: 7:26

And then you just start going down the YV road yeah you just go down the rabbit hole and once you start you just you truly do not stop and it just evolves in different ways. So once I graduated grad school, moved back to Minnesota, I my background's in mental health and law for my education knew I didn't want to go into therapy or counseling. It just wasn't what I wanted. But I still wanted to make an impact and I was like, how can I bring therapy and yoga and energy work together? And that's where I found life coaching. And so I went through a whole heck of a lot of certs and education to get certified in life coaching, nlp, hypnosis or Reiki, breathwork, all of the things and that eventually kind of just unfolded many years later into really diving deep into energy work and femininity, femininity and sexuality.

Speaker 2: 8:22

Yay, I love that you're here today and I love that we get to talk about, I feel, at least in my world. I don't know about you. I mean, you've created a world where I'm sure you're talking about this ton, but there's just not a ton of conversation around this stuff.

Speaker 1: 8:38

No, Still very taboo. Yeah, why is that? I think we're still in a world where it's like we can't see energy work, we can't like it's not black and white. And so I think we're still living in a society that it's right or it's wrong, like yes, no, and energy work doesn't work like that. And so to conceptualize it, I think if you're not diving into it and you're not allowing yourself to experience it firsthand, I'm going to totally butcher this and then you can fix it.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Go for it. So when we talk about energy work and I've said this on a few of the episodes of the podcast and something that was like such a simple but big aha, is that energy? Like I'd hear yogis and other people be like, oh, the energy and the vibe, and I was like what the hell does that even mean, you know? And then I'm like, oh, no, it's real energy. Like electricity is energy that we cannot see. Musical vibrations are energy that we cannot see. Light is energy that we can see when it, you know, but we can't see it traveling. So there's a lot with science that we can't see. That requires some kind of faith to like believe, just faith in the very basic sense of the word, like I'm going to believe it even though I can't see it. And so with energy work, I'm like, oh, my example that we started with of being in a class and being like, oh, there's energy locked up, some here and that, some somewhere in my body, and that was a release, right, yeah, so energy work is moving energy.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Yeah, it's moving energy in some sort of way within the body to help you release the blockages. So you think you have your ability to heal through the conscious mind and that's where you like enter in therapy, enter in life coaching, things like that. But your body is also able to do a lot of healing. There's a book called the Body Keeps the Score, like there is so much that is held onto the body and we might think that we've consciously processed things, consciously healed through things, but we forget that our body still has to heal through it as well. So energy healing really helps break up anything that we're still holding on to stagnantly in the body.

Speaker 2: 11:01

So can we talk about this like how the body holds on to things, how do you break it up and why does it hold on to things?

Speaker 1: 11:10

and that's a good question for like why I don't. I truly don't know why our bodies hold on to things. Like it's a weird, a weird concept, like if I've talked about it and I'm okay with it, why can't I just let it go? Like, why can't I just move on? And I think part of it might have to do with the subconscious mind that the majority of how we process, the majority of how we think, is actually subconsciously, not consciously. So I think it all then taps into the nervous system and our bodies just remember things.

Speaker 2: 11:47

So I was having a conversation like a week ago with a few women and we were talking about some of these ideas and one that I think it was like really landing hard for the women in the room, kind of like an embodiment it's a round embodiment and so one woman in particular was just sharing that. She was like I'm realizing how I am so out of touch with my body. I don't even know my desires. So if we're talking about sexually, she just was like I just say yes to my partner because it hurts quote, unquote, hurts him to say no but I don't even know if I want it or what I want, or how I like it.

Speaker 2: 12:26

Do I like it, do I not like it? But but in my perception of what she was sharing was that she's just basically become so numb to her body in general that she doesn't even know what she wants, and I think that's really common. And it might start with as simple, like we were talking about how, like, how do you tune back into your body when you're so out of tune with your body and why is that important?

Speaker 1: 12:56

What would you say that it's like so important on many different levels, and I think the first thing, if we're going to start getting back in touch with our body, is truly just allowing ourselves to slow down and start to become aware of sensation. So like, even in my other life, as like working as a yoga instructor and working as a group fitness instructor, I'll say things to people in words of like, lift your shoulders or press your shoulders down, or like even the basic of lift your arms, and it is wild how people still don't like have that connection.

Speaker 1: 13:31

Or, if I'm like, square your hips and be like I am, square my hips and I'm like no, we are like, so disconnected from our body, so, so disconnected, and so I think a lot of it you have to slow down. We have to slow down and just bring ourselves back in. And the reason why I say slowing down is number one is because we live in a society that is constantly on the go, constantly quote unquote busy, always running around doing things for other people. Like you're just saying, that woman was saying yes to things because it was going to make her partner happy, not because it was going to make her happy or satisfy her. Like we are even aware of what it is that we want, what it is we like anymore. So we have to take our power back and bring ourselves back home, first by just slowing down.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Yeah, I'm thinking back to like for me, I think, some of the added layers, to like the society and just like busyness of things is also okay. I'm a mom and what you know at the time was a wife, and so I think a lot of men might feel this way too. So I don't want to say it's just a woman thing, but like, yeah, when you're in a mode of giving and you're just giving because you all their people have needs and the needs don't stop. I remember it was actually, I think, after I got divorced, waking up and being like I don't know what kind of music I like. Have you seen runaway bride Mm?

Speaker 2: 15:02

hmm, it's like I'm old. It's a really old Julia Roberts movie. It's like 27 years old, right, and anyways, she kind of goes through this thing where she was just like I don't know how I like my eggs, I don't know what kind of music I want, I don't know like, because I was like well, we'll listen to the kids music and all cook and you like, and those are really kind of silly examples, but I think it's such a big thing where we're like common though I'll just have whatever you're having and the practice of like actually going what sounds yummy, mm, hmm, that sounds good. I want that. Yeah, instead of just be like yeah, whatever, yeah, and not like tuning into what sounds good, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:44

My first wake up something similar to that was I was in a relationship for about four years and we split at the end of 2020. And so it'd been a while since I dated and started talking to all of these different people, and the number one question people ask when you start to get to know them is like what do you like to do? What are your hobbies? And I was like, oh shit, I have no clue.

Speaker 1: 16:10

I have no clue what my hobbies or my interests are. I'm like, oh God, madden, that is so bad, that's so bad, can we?

Speaker 2: 16:17

put a pause on this. Let's put a pin in this conversation and come back to it a month after.

Speaker 1: 16:21

I figure out exactly, I'm like what we can still hang out, but like I don't know what I like to do.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Know anything about myself? No, do you want to learn who I am with me?

Speaker 1: 16:32

Which most people are like no, yeah, I don't, at least that's my answer in how these things.

Speaker 2: 16:37

So you've moved from, I think. Well, wait, there was something I wanted to say about the yoga piece and the embodiment piece, because you shared and thank you for sharing, by the way that there was mental health challenges, struggles throughout college, high school, and that getting into your body was I'm going to use the word therapeutic or helpful, and I think that's so huge and so much to me of this feminine energetic stuff that the masculine lives in the mind and sort of and very logic based. And I was listening to a podcast episode recently where this psychologist was saying what it. I can't remember exactly how she put it, but basically like I'm going to betray my own practice now by saying that we've put so much emphasis on, like the mind, that, and we've negated the fact that the body keeps the score and by getting out of our head and getting into our body, we, we can heal. And just like I've been asking people the question lately too, when they're like I'm not sure why I'm doing that, and I'm like, do you need to know why?

Speaker 1: 17:43

That's a beautiful question. I think that is one of the reasons to why I kept going back to yoga and why I'm so in love with so many of these healing modalities is because you don't have to know why, you don't have to think. You can allow your mind to just settle and let your body do what it needs to do, and I think that's why I kept going back to my yoga practice was like I I was anxious, I was depressed, I wasn't connected to my body and yet every single time I looked at the mirror, I was critiqued, like my mind would just continuously race in a way where it was just always against me and never with me. And so when I made my way to my mat, I was able to shut it off and I could just listen to the instructor and listen to their cues and listen to their breath, to really come back to me. And for like an hour a day, if I could just have my mind quiet, I was that much closer to healing. That's so good.

Speaker 2: 18:40

If, for if there's somebody listening, that is like yoga is not my thing. What would you say to them if they needed to get out of their head and into their body and just move your body and whatever way feels like, whatever way feels best.

Speaker 1: 18:51

So like, for us, yoga was a huge thing, but it doesn't have to be, and I'll I'll do a lot of times depending on my mood and how I'm feeling, like lifting weights and lifting really heavy feels really good. Or going for a run If that's something that you really like to do, if you like to hike, or if you're someone who loves the snow and now it's winter and so, like you're getting out on the ski hills and skiing and snowboarding. Like, just move your body.

Speaker 2: 19:17

Get into your body? Yeah, okay. So let's get into our bodies. Can we talk once Juicy stuff? Yeah, let's go. Okay, so you are a femininity and sensuality coach. How did you get into that?

Speaker 1: 19:34

And what does that mean? How did I get into that realm? Okay, so when I first started life coaching, it was more on the self love and empowerment route Very related to what I personally was going through originally and just really tapping more into confidence and empowering others to ideally, love themselves and I was like, oh, but there's something deeper, like I feel like we're just we're just scratching the surface, and so I started exploring more things within myself and that's how we kind of started opening the door for sensuality and femininity. I referenced that I was in a relationship for a long period of time, in a sense that in that relationship I was not sensual at all and I was not connected to my body at all. And near the end of our relationship, that's, I started wanting to really explore that, but I didn't feel it wasn't a space to explore like that wasn't the partner to explore that with, and so post that relationship, really diving more into what is all of this work.

Speaker 1: 20:46

And there was someone that on Instagram that I was connected to and I had been following her for years at this point and she started coaching on this material and when I first found her, I was so turned off by it and I was just like why is someone talking about this? Like I don't understand it, I don't get it. And the more I started following and more I started listening, I was like, okay, there is a huge reason why I'm like turned off by this and it's a barrier within myself, and so took that, worked through that and now I'm like, oh gosh, this is where a lot of the healing and a lot of the work needs to be.

Speaker 2: 21:29

That's so cool. Yeah, I love that example of like oh my gosh, why am I so turned off and triggered? And I think for anything in our life when we are like about anything, it's because there's a piece of that that we have shoved into our shadow Totally, that we are like that's not okay and I don't want anything to do with that and that's that's a disservice to ourselves. So, like, kudos to you for going. Okay, there's something here. Let me lean into this. So what did you discover?

Speaker 1: 22:01

That's a really deep question.

Speaker 2: 22:06

I could take it wherever you want, or take it nowhere.

Speaker 1: 22:12

I think what I discovered and I think some listeners will be able to relate that there is something wild inside each and every single one of us. But there are lots of things that work against us to keep that wild in and keep something tame. But once you start to work through what that actually is and you realize that it has nothing to do with you, that you can let some of those chains go and there's a lot of freedom when you allow yourself to live your wild.

Speaker 2: 22:47

What is living your wild mean to you, or what is your wild Like? What is that? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 22:53

I think you can take it in a lot of different ways. So again, that kind of goes into sensuality as well, that living your wild. A lot of times we're just going to say, like, does that mean like you're a really sexual human or you're really into different things in the bedroom, and that's absolutely not what it means. It can for some people, but I think for me it was really really tapping into. What does it mean to be free? What does it mean to be free as a woman with what I want to do with my life and what fills my cup, and not feel as though I have to live according to other people's expectations or what I may have been raised to live, but really living with intention and what's true for me.

Speaker 2: 23:42

When you're on this path of, like, finding your wild and letting your wild become free. Did you run into I'm assuming you ran into points of tension or like resistance or points of like I don't know how to be free or like. Can you talk about that experience or, if there's anything, you any specific memories you have of like how you worked through that and let some of the chains fall?

Speaker 2: 24:11

I think there are lots of points I'm thinking about, like the women in my world, or even just myself, and these, these points of like I guess I'm going to label them fear, or like discomfort, or like the first time you're like okay, so I'm not comfortable exploring my sensuality in this relationship, but I'm going to start to excuse me, but I'm going to start to explore it. And there's probably a point at which you're like am I going to do this or am I going to go here? And then what does it take for you to step into? Whatever that thing is, you know how to start to shed the shit and like okay.

Speaker 1: 24:49

So we're going to just take a like one really easy example for me in terms of just like being free, being wild, and like tapping into my body. I have been curious about pole dancing and boudoir for a really long time. But someone who is keeping their wild and kind of playing small or not living, letting themselves be free, like, might be like, okay, that's what other people can do, but like that's, that's just not for me. Like I that's. I can't do that. And that's what I felt for a really long time, probably because it is more sexual, it is more sensual, it can be very revealing. There's lots of different styles of it. And I was like I, that's not, I'm never going to do that, like, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 1: 25:35

But it ended up being something that I was like, okay, I'm just going to try, I'm just going to try one class and I'm going to see where it goes. And so I took one class. So it's 2023. I took one class February of 2021. And I was like, okay, that's enough for now. Like I did the thing, but I don't know if I can do it. And then, six months later, I went through my first boudoir shoot and it was fucking incredible and I swear on here is that okay, it was freaking amazing.

Speaker 1: 26:14

And what was amazing about it? When you find the right photographer, she knows how to not just let you feel beautiful but empowers you in a really, really great way. That's different from just like a standard photo shoot If you're doing something for business or like, obviously, a family shooter whatnot like boudoir is very vulnerable, and being in a space that was safe and having her support me to move my body in a way that most people shouldn't see like quote unquote see your body be was really freeing. And then going through that experience and then getting my photos back, I was like, there she is Like I love that, that's who I want to be. She's beautiful, she's confident, she's sensual, she's sexy. I'm like that is who I've been craving to be.

Speaker 1: 27:21

And I think, once getting those photos back and going through that experience and that same summer of that same photo shoot, I solo traveled every single month to different places for like a week at a time and I think, putting that all together, I was like, okay, I can do the thing. Now I can do it. So six months later, went back to pole dancing and haven't stopped since, have done three more boudoir shoots to three more shoots Like it's just finding those little things that I'm like, okay, give. They're giving me those little nuggets of like continue to unshackle, continue to step forward and then it's a built. Does that make sense? Does that answer your?

Speaker 2: 27:59

question? Yeah, it does, and I think it's. It's a release, like recognizing whether you're well. It's a piece of work. It could uh correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but it sounds to me like a piece of it is uh well, a it's simultaneous just stepping into the opportunity but then also, in those moments, choosing to release any resistance. I imagine is, this woman is placing your body in positions and seeing things, you're having a moment of like am I going to shy away from this or am I going to just surrender? Like, literally, yoga stuff will come to mind in those moments, like surrender to this right now and just like let it happen, let it be, and then how freeing it is. The other thing that was coming to mind as you were speaking, that is, I think there's such a beautiful thing about having witnesses in our lives and that we can do a lot on our own. But it sounds to me like there was also something really powerful about her supporting you in that and being a witness to your unfolding. That was really empowering, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:02

Yeah, yeah, and it was like the bandaid wasn't completely ripped off yet. We, like the first pole class was probably like just a corner of the bandaid. And then the boudoir shoe was like okay, half the band aids off now, because that was a real big leap. And then a few months later was like okay, we just got to go for it. And I think that's something that we all have to remind ourselves to when we're trying to make these big leaps or make these big changes or tap into something that we haven't explored yet.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Is like, if we're nervous, if there's a lot of fear, that fear is there for a reason. It's been built up and so we can't just always go into that fear 110% to break it down, because that in itself is also really scary. And again, talking about the body, it can be really traumatic to the body just to do all of that at once. And so to remind yourself that a lot of this takes time. It took years and years and years for me to build up this fear, to build up this like I don't know if I can be that type of woman, because I've never thought I could be her. So it was truly a process of unraveling and unfolding to get there.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yeah, good work, that's so good. I feel like this idea of, like you know, life is only lived in the present moment. It's not lived in the past, it's not lived in the future.

Speaker 2: 30:25

And where's the present moment? It is in our bodies, and if we're disconnected from our bodies, are we really living? And so, coming back to like in the really, I mean pleasure. I mean pleasure and sexuality, for sure, but also just pleasure in enjoying a warm cup of coffee or the feel of like a really cozy sweater on my skin, and and feeling like pleasure has become a pathway into really living, because it it. There's no way you can experience pleasure and not be connected to your body, which is where life happens.

Speaker 1: 31:01

Yeah, and that is being a sensual human. Okay, okay, is that what that means? Yes, so sensuality is basically living life through the five senses and asking yourself what is it that brings me joy and pleasure with all of those things? So, what do I enjoy to see, what do I enjoy to hear, what do I enjoy to taste? What feels good? What feels good to me Like all of that is what sensuality is. So, yes, it's sex and in the bedroom, but how do you bring that into every single aspect and area of your life? So an example I just moved apartments and so I am decorating my entire apartment and I'm like how do I want to feel, like? How, when I walk into my space, how do I want it to make me feel? What do I want it to look like? So when I come here, I feel home and I feel joy at the same time.

Speaker 2: 31:53

There's such simple questions, but so simple they make what they make the difference of the quality of our lives. Yeah, okay, let's talk about the bedroom. Have you on the show? Like every intro to every podcast is like we're diving into the bedroom and I'm like we haven't done it in the bedroom yet. Everybody's like we're going to do today. Okay, so I want you. I love that, as we got to know each other a little bit. I'm like, oh my gosh, we're into so many of the same things, like we did NLP and masculine, feminine energy, and so you get the framework idea of it. Let's talk about let's first. Well, let's tip toe into the bedroom. We'll do a little foreplay to the bedroom.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yes.

Speaker 2: 32:40

So masculine, feminine framework, let's talk about that in dating first. Yeah, tell me, tell me what you, what your thoughts are, what do you see? What do you want to see in your life or with women in general that are looking for that yummy dynamic?

Speaker 1: 32:58

So I think, first and foremost, you need to be aware of what your dominant energy is versus what it is that you are attracted to. And I say that for a reason because it typically typically men are going to be more dominant masculine and typically women are going to be more dominant feminine. But that is not always the case, especially if we have a lot of imbalances going within our work life and our home life and whatnot. But if you are dominantly masculine, or right now you relate to being more dominantly masculine if you're a woman, but then I ask you well, what is it that you find attractive in a man? And they're like I want someone who is going to lead, I want someone who's going to plan my dates, I want someone who's going to be way more dominant and forward. I'm like okay, so if we're dominantly masculine ourselves and you are also attracted to someone who's dominantly masculine, the two of you are going to butt heads, if not right away, eventually, because you're both are going to be fighting for some sort of control.

Speaker 2: 34:02

I just heard someone recently say two alphas, don't bang. You know that right.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Exactly yeah, and so you need to be aware of where you are in your current state and what it is that you are attracted to Now. That is not saying that you can't be dominantly masculine in other places. So you can be dominantly masculine as a woman at work, but then when you come home to your partner, that's when you surrender into your feminine, because you trust him and you feel safe with him to lead.

Speaker 2: 34:34

What to me takes. So it's taking, at least for me, a lot of practice of like flexing I don't even want to say flexing the feminine muscle, because it's not a flex, it's like a softened, it's a surrender, it's like a true softening. But so I've been like toying with that. I just got this question from a woman the other day, so I will not anonymously pass it on to you and get your thoughts on this. So in the dating world, let's just say you've got somebody that you've got your eye on and you're like I want to be in my feminine in my dating life. I don't want to be dominant in pursuing this man. So do I tell him, am I dropping hints? Do I like suggest we go out? Like how do I stay in my feminine and let this guy know that I'm interested without being dominant?

Speaker 1: 35:21

Oh, that's such a good question because I do think that right now in my experience and what I have seen clients experience and friends experience is that I feel like in our dating culture the roles are starting to flip and I think more men are starting to come forward in their feminine and more women are starting to come forward in their masculine. But I think that's also why so many relationships right now are not working.

Speaker 2: 35:50

It's like is this what people truly want? Exactly Right, yeah exactly so.

Speaker 1: 35:55

I think there is a way to show if you're a don't leave feminine and you're interested in the man. I think there is a way to show him that you are interested. Just a lot of eyelash batting, is it? Give a little wink. Um, I mean, you do it in a way that is best to you. I literally gave a guy my number last week and I didn't hear from him. But that's fine. Um, I think you can allow, like let him know that you're interested but then no, like you've done what you can let him now pursue you. Like he'll do what he wants with that information and if he's not going to pursue you, if he's not going to chase you not a man that you want to go after.

Speaker 2: 36:36

I heard something recently that was like the feminine is reflective. So so she I'm going to say she, but I don't just mean in the female sense, but feminine is reflective, so she, if you can respond to masculine energy, versus tell the masculine what to do so, like you find, I'm just trying to like think out loud what this might look like. So there's somebody that seems to be pretty masculine, dominant. They're showing up with that energy you find it really attractive. So, instead of being like let's go out, it's like, hmm, I like your energy, yes, and you're reflecting back to them what you're seeing. And then you just then the balls sort of in their cords and if you're energetically open, yeah, that that's polarizing, which is attractive. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:27

We do not chase, we attract.

Speaker 2: 37:29

Yeah, talk more about that. How and you do this in your work too Do you want to talk about that a little bit, and then we'll me under into the bedroom.

Speaker 1: 37:38

Sure. So what I mean by we do not chase, we attract. So when we're chasing something, it's typically coming from a state of lack. So if we think in terms of law of attraction and manifestation and whatnot, if we're going at something or towards something from a state of lack, it shows that we are eager, it shows that we are desperate. It also shows that we are not living in a state where we already feel as though we are enough and that type of energy can be really repelling. So we don't want to do that, whereas when you come forward already, knowing that you are enough, you already have everything that you could possibly ever imagine needing or wanting. Knowing that you are the energy that someone is craving and that your energy is magnetic, you will attract and pull in whoever, whatever is meant for you.

Speaker 2: 38:44

I like that yummy little phrase you are the energy that somebody is craving. Ooh, that's good. I was thinking about if I was a guy and I was listening to this again, like this can be gay, straight, whatever, so I'm just playing heteronormative roles here. But if I was a guy listening to this and it was like, well, we don't chase. I think guys also shouldn't chase, right, because that's not attractive. But there's a difference to me between pursue and chase. And I would also say, like the clarity with which a man can show up and go, my intention right now is to pursue you, and here's what I want that to look like. Is that's do you want to come along?

Speaker 1: 39:31

And that's like oh, yeah, or when they're very direct of I would like to take you out here at this time. How does that sound to you? I?

Speaker 2: 39:42

just was at the bar with a girlfriend last night. We were talking through these dynamics. She's on dating apps again after being off for a while and she was like Jen. He messaged me and he was like, are you free on Saturday? And she said yeah, I am. And he said, great, I'll have a date planned for you. And she's like, oh my God, Like she's like I think men underestimate how swoony that makes us and that to me, even just my response. Talking about it, my whole body is like, yeah, but I think it's because it's just uncommon right now and we're like craving to be able to just be soft and lead and taken. Yeah, yes, yes, I don't know how else to say it. So now I'm saying it on a podcast. Hopefully this message gets out there. Like man, we I also think men have been confused because they're like let me lead and let me do the things Right.

Speaker 1: 40:40

Oh, my God, I'm going to tell you a story that is exactly just that. So I won on this date recently, just a few days ago actually. And such a sweet man, such a sweet man. So if you actually listen to this, I'll give give me a little shout out nonchalantly. And then the bill comes, and that's usually my test on a first date, right, like is he going to pay? Are we going to split it? What not? Not, because I can't pay for myself. Again, it's I want him to pursue, I want him to show that he wants to take care of me, but I always offer, I always offer. So I was like do you want to split it? And he was like yeah, that's fine. And I was like OK, taking note.

Speaker 1: 41:27

And then the server comes and takes, takes both of our cards, and he was like I just never know what to do.

Speaker 1: 41:37

And I go tell me more, what do you mean?

Speaker 1: 41:40

And he was like I truly don't know if I should be the one paying for you or if we should split it, because, no matter what, I feel like I'm wrong.

Speaker 1: 41:49

And I go oh, what do you mean? And he was like I went on a date with someone a few weeks ago and she got mad at me for paying, and I then told him what my philosophy was of I am very capable of taking care of myself, I'm very capable of paying for myself, but on a date, I want to know that you want to take care of me and I want to know that you want to take me out. And he literally turned around to the server and go you can put it all in my card, and so I think that's just a very simple example, and I think for some women that might be a turnoff as well. But I think that is just a very clear example of men are also confused and I think partially it's because we are giving the mixed signals of we are independent, we don't need you, but then also here we are saying but I want you to pursue me and I want you to court me, like we're like I cannot win, I cannot win.

Speaker 1: 42:40

And so these poor dudes, and I will say it, I feel bad for them too.

Speaker 2: 42:44

I do too. It's confusing and I think the money thing has got a lot of layers to it, because we all have, I think, a lot of baggage with money and money stories we've told our, told ourselves. It is a very vulnerable position to be in as a woman who's worked hard to be strong and independent, to also receive somebody paying for you. And then there's all these societal like things around it. I've dated people that are like no, we should just always split and we could go down that rabbit hole quite a ways, because I'm like maybe once you get into a relationship, things are different.

Speaker 2: 43:18

Things are different, but I feel like you're right. It's a, it's a gesture of like. I want to create a framework. I want you to know that you're taking care of. I don't want you to have to make decisions or worry about things and work together. It's unnerving to me if I'm with somebody and I'm not sure if their card's going to go through.

Speaker 1: 43:37

It doesn't make you feel safe.

Speaker 2: 43:38

No, I'm like my nervous system will literally light up and I'm just like oh, but if I know that they're confidently like, I've got this, yeah, don't worry about this, don't worry about the directions on how to get to the restaurant, like, and those have been little practices for me to get in a car, even with a friend, and not be like, well, let's go this way instead of that way. I'm like I'm choosing to surrender all of those little teeny things because it is a muscle to like exercise, just to go. I'm not going to take charge right now and I will tell you, I have some male friends in my world right now and and they're doing that for me and with me in friendship and I'm so it feels, so blessed to have because I don't I've never had that to have these little examples of like and I feel my body let down. I feel myself relax, my nervous system like go off. I'm like, oh, I'm in parasympathetic now because I literally my body feels safe here. Yeah, it's wild, wild, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 44:40

I feel like we have to go there now.

Speaker 2: 44:42

We're going to the bed. How does this masculine, feminine stuff show up in the bedroom?

Speaker 1: 44:49

Communication is very, very important, right? Yeah, um, I truly feel as though, if you are dominantly feminine and you're with a partner that's dominantly masculine, you want them to lead. Yeah, you want to feel so safe with them that you can surrender completely to them in the bedroom, and that's not even talking in terms of like BDSM or things like that, like we can go there, but that's not what I'm referring to.

Speaker 1: 45:24

But if you're dominantly feminine and there's just a hint of you that doesn't feel like you can completely trust or completely surrender, you're going to come forward a little bit in your masculine and it's not going to be this beautiful, easy, fun experience that both of you want to have Also coming forward in your masculine. Most likely, you are going to be in your head and not in your body.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Yeah, oh, um, I have so many thoughts and so many questions let's talk about, so let's take set aside BDSM, yep, and let's talk about the word surrender and what it means to surrender. What does it mean to surrender? Yeah, and how do you do?

Speaker 1: 46:10

that it's a practice. Yeah, it is a practice, for sure, and I think it's something that, with every single relationship and dynamic we experience, it's going to be a practice and it's going to start have to not start over every single time, but when you're with different people or different partners. However, whoever's listening in whatever type of relationship that you practice, it takes time and, in my opinion, what it means to surrender is to be able to let go of that tension, let go of those nerves and hesitation and just be so completely in the body and at ease for what's to come.

Speaker 2: 47:00

Yeah, you're familiar with John Weinland. Yeah, he's a what's so familiar Polarity teacher. I've probably talked about him before, maybe I don't know. Okay, he teaches on polarity, but he talks about how we tend to close up in three of our centers, or throat, our heart and our cervix. And so to me, when I think about energetically surrendering, it's like a total openness, and then, when you're totally open, you have a much more sensitive responsiveness and sensitive everything. Yeah, right, yeah, and so then the flow of it is different, because your energy is actually moving. Energy is moving and you're responding to what's happening, and hopefully then I couldn't be surrendered like that if I'm with a partner that is also not conscious and aware. So they're conscious and aware of, like, what's happening in the moment. They're also responding to your response and moving accordingly yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:06

That's where you get this beautiful, like the blend of the yin and the yang, the harmony of masculine and feminine truly coming together. Yeah, of what it's meant to be.

Speaker 2: 48:15

Yeah, hmm, hmm, oh no. What else do I want to ask? I'm just thinking. I'm trying to think of people who might be listening to this and where they might be stuck Right. I'm thinking of a few people, like one the woman that is a bad ass, you know, she's a badass in her job. She's pretty uncomfortable being vulnerable, but she really longs for a masculine partner and then in bed they have like wild sex, like what, like fun sex, and it probably feels pretty good and both people reach climax and that's great. But not surrendered sex and like so how do you move into that? Or how does a person get? How do they start to get there?

Speaker 1: 49:06

Yeah. Well, I think the question would be again is how connected are you to your body? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because someone like that sounds like they are probably living the majority of their life in the masculine and so, again, that's totally fine. Again, what we're saying here, there is not a right or a wrong, so I want to make sure that is very clear. Um, but how often is she allowing herself time to truly slow down, surrender and tap into her body?

Speaker 2: 49:35

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 1: 49:36

And that might have to start with solo practice rather than with a partner.

Speaker 2: 49:40

Mm, hmm, that's a really great point, do you?

Speaker 1: 49:48

have tips on that. Set your space A solo practice Again, just tapping into sensuality, right? What is it that brings you pleasure? But now we're starting to bring that into the bedroom and it can be as easy of just having your favorite toys and just having it with yourself, or you can create it as an entire experience. Have the lights, have the candles, have the wine and the bubble bath and just date yourself for the entire evening and see what that is like.

Speaker 2: 50:26

Yeah, I think, again, we don't talk about this stuff a lot. It's certain I don't know that there's a lot of podcasts there. Probably there is a lot of people talking about a lot of this. So for a lot of people it's uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable, it's so comfortable to talk about sensuality and sexuality and like, how do I explore that? And what is that? Like I've talked to so many women who are like I've never had an orgasm with a man. I can have have one by myself, but not with a man and I'm like well, what? Why is that? Why is that what it came to in the conversations that we've had? It's like are you open? Are you energetically open to receiving, or are you at blocking and pushing away? What would you say to that? Or what would you?

Speaker 1: 51:09

I think that is exactly right. And then, going back to what you said about being able to surrender, it has to do with the throat, the heart, and that would be the sacral chakra. Yep, uh, part of that is being able to communicate. So if your throat chakra is closed, you are not communicating to your partner what it is that you need. And then going back to the very beginning of our entire conversation of women basically saying yes, because it fills their partner's cup but not theirs, we're not communicating our needs and what it is that we truly want. And if we don't do that and we're with the same partner and we continually do the same things over and over and over again, it's also not fair to them to not be sharing what it is that we want, because, at the end of the day, they also want to make sure that our cups are full.

Speaker 2: 51:58

Yeah, I heard something recently too about coming back to that responsiveness idea. That a one of the ways that you can communicate, like you can certainly communicate with words, but then also, if you're responsive in the moment and they're at all but you need to be like more responsive than you think, because the guys aren't going to pick up the cues the same way right.

Speaker 2: 52:20

They're not as sensitive to that. So if something doesn't feel good, you need to respond in a way that lets them know that's not, that's not happening. Right, it's not a direct please, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or if it's feeling great like, show it. Let them know, instead of being ashamed of that, right, and so how? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 52:40

A wild woman isn't ashamed of anything, essentially. So let your wants and desires be heard. What you like, what you dislike, it's doing yourself, at the end of the day, the best service and the most respect for your body and being.

Speaker 2: 52:56

I think that's what men want too. I think they crave like a real woman, yes, in her fullness, yes, yes, queen. Also, can we just say I like I don't think they want us to fake it. They really don't. It doesn't give them good information.

Speaker 1: 53:20

No, because then they keep doing that over again. That didn't work last time. You're just like oh God, here we go again, like, but then that thing comes to us, it's our, it's totally on us.

Speaker 2: 53:32

Totally on us at that point. Yes, it is.

Speaker 1: 53:36

So dating is confusing, relationships are confusing, but we can do a better job of being.

Speaker 2: 53:43

We can do a better job. Yeah, yeah, okay, for the people that are listening, just a general question for you. What's been on your heart and mind lately, like in this context, in the Serena?

Speaker 1: 53:56

what is it that you would want to say and share my heart like skip to beat when you ask that question Lately. Right now, what's been on my heart and it very much can still relate to everything that we're talking about is that we all go through seasons and seasons of really high highs and seasons of really low lows and you can directly relate that to femininity and sensuality that there are going to be seasons where you just feel like you are in complete alignment and in your flow and in your Zen, and then there's going to be other seasons that just feel like why am I so disconnected or why does this just feel not right? And to just remind yourself that there is a purpose for every single season, and it is just that a season that eventually the next one is going to come. The next chapter is right around the corner. So, no matter what season of life that you're in, to remind yourself to really enjoy it and be present, because there is a purpose and you're just going to allow that lesson to carry forward.

Speaker 2: 55:04

Hello, that you use the word season in that too, like I think about the seasons we go through here in Minnesota and and that the winter is cold and dark and long, and there is a purpose for that season, and that if we didn't have things die off and hibernate, that they wouldn't bloom the way that they needed to, and so I really appreciate the way that you put that in. When we're in seasons, there's something there for us, no matter how it happened or how we got there or whatever, that there's something there for us in that season.

Speaker 1: 55:41

Yeah, that's really beautiful. So, especially if someone's listening and they're you're very new to exploring what it is masculine, feminine energy and what it is to explore your own sensual side, and if it feels really slow or if it feels really uncomfortable and challenging, know that there is a purpose for that and that it does. It can get easier and you will become more open and you will start to surrender more and you will start to become more in that state of flow rather than being so against it the entire time, and then a new season will come and then another season will come after that. So just, it continues to unfold and unravel. That's great.

Speaker 2: 56:23

Thank you for being here today, thank you for having me, thank you for going into some of the darker, uncomfortable corners, anytime If you want to go more?

Speaker 1: 56:31

I will be back. We probably will.

Speaker 2: 56:33

I think this is a good edge into it and we'll see how the listeners handle it. Yeah, yeah, all right, thank you, thank you, as always. Thank you for tuning in. I hope that this episode is supporting you in becoming your most whole self so that you can lead your most full life. You are definitely worthy and deserving of that. All of the resources that we shared today are going to be linked in the show notes. You can check those out there, along with ways that you can connect with us If you've got questions or feedback or people that you think we should reach out to to highlight their story on the whole shebang podcast. In the meantime, please be sure to hit that follow button so you don't miss a beat. Share this episode or any others with those that you think could benefit from this conversation, and you can do the podcast a huge favor by leaving a five star review In the meantime. I hope that you have a fantastic bang in day.